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transfer after opponents overcall west bid

#1 User is offline   maris oren 

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Posted 2021-May-21, 15:26



how does west transfer to hearts after opponents 2 overcall?
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#2 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2021-May-21, 16:00

This is a system question, there are various ways to do it.

Look up the Lebensohl convention, look up the Rubinsohl convention.

Essentially lebensohl gives you 3 ways to bid hearts, 2 NF, 3 and 2N-3-3 one forcing one invitational, people play them either way round. Rubinsohl in this case uses 3 as an invitational or better transfer to hearts.
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#3 User is offline   smerriman 

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Posted 2021-May-21, 16:47

Even when playing lebensohl, over a 2 overcall you can play double as Stayman and 2 as a normal transfer to hearts.
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#4 User is offline   mycroft 

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Posted 2021-May-21, 16:53

Many players play systems on after a 2 overcall, whether natural or artificial (my regular partnerships do so). You lose the ability to double (whether you play that as penalty or negative), but in exchange you get to keep your entire normal system. Also, because most partnerships play an artificial 2 overcall (or a "Natural+" overcall like DONT (clubs and a higher suit)), the chance to make a "normal" double is very low anyway (and with the truly artificial ones, you can expect to be able to make a "normal" double of their real suit next round).

Warning: many players decide to keep trying to play "systems on" over higher overcalls, using what is known as "stolen bid doubles". This is awful, because you've lost your 2 (or higher) "call", much more commonly the higher overcalls show that suit (potentially "and"), and if they know they can push you around safely, many players will do so - that's the whole point behind DONT, after all. Don't do this in general (as Cyberyeti says, look into some Lebensohl variant); think about it for (especially artificial) 2 overcalls.
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#5 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2021-May-22, 14:25

A more demanding question is "playing f2f without screens with this hand, do I ask about 2 non-alerted and if not what do I assume?"
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#6 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2021-May-22, 14:44

View Postpescetom, on 2021-May-22, 14:25, said:

A more demanding question is "playing f2f without screens with this hand, do I ask about 2 non-alerted and if not what do I assume?"

Do you ask? If you are wanting to bid and the answer may influence your decision, yes.
If it wasn't alerted you assume it's clubs don't you?
Searching for your own mistakes is the only way to learn this game. - Fluffy

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#7 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2021-May-22, 15:18

View Postjillybean, on 2021-May-22, 14:44, said:

Do you ask? If you are wanting to bid and the answer may influence your decision, yes.
If it wasn't alerted you assume it's clubs don't you?


Insomma :)
IIRC, ACBL does not assume this interference is artificial, unlike the less obvious Unusual NT.
In a "normal" RA you can assume it is clubs, at your peril.
The answer certainly influences your decision here.
But asking is no picnic either.
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#8 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2021-May-22, 18:02

View Postpescetom, on 2021-May-22, 15:18, said:

Insomma :)
IIRC, ACBL does not assume this interference is artificial, unlike the less obvious Unusual NT.

Correct

View Postpescetom, on 2021-May-22, 15:18, said:

In a "normal" RA you can assume it is clubs, at your peril.
The answer certainly influences your decision here.

True

View Postpescetom, on 2021-May-22, 15:18, said:

But asking is no picnic either.

Don't ask, take a look at your opponents convention card.
Oh wait, the mandatory requirement for both pairs to have a completed CC is not enforced. We want to play "nice bridge".
If they do have a card, it may or may not be accurate.
Yep, you're &^**%%.
Searching for your own mistakes is the only way to learn this game. - Fluffy

And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. - MikeH

SLOW DOWN! This is not a speedball :)
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#9 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2021-May-23, 10:47

View Postjillybean, on 2021-May-22, 18:02, said:

Don't ask, take a look at your opponents convention card.
Oh wait, the mandatory requirement for both pairs to have a completed CC is not enforced. We want to play "nice bridge".
If they do have a card, it may or may not be accurate.
Yep, you're &^**%%.

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#10 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2021-May-23, 15:20

View Postjillybean, on 2021-May-22, 18:02, said:

Don't ask, take a look at your opponents convention card.
Oh wait, the mandatory requirement for both pairs to have a completed CC is not enforced. We want to play "nice bridge".
If they do have a card, it may or may not be accurate.
Yep, you're &^**%%.


It can get worse than that.
I particularly remember the time (normal club game, play without screens) that TD eyed our CC like something brown on the pavement, took it away to examine for evidence of misdemeanour and returned to warn us severely that we were obliged to have two copies not one, but he would take no action this time (not a word to our opponents with no CC).
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#11 User is offline   DavidKok 

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Posted 2021-May-24, 02:27

View Postpescetom, on 2021-May-23, 15:20, said:

It can get worse than that.
I particularly remember the time (normal club game, play without screens) that TD eyed our CC like something brown on the pavement, took it away to examine for evidence of misdemeanour and returned to warn us severely that we were obliged to have two copies not one, but he would take no action this time (not a word to our opponents with no CC).
So I assume you pocketed your CC and said you would play the rest of the event without one?
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#12 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2021-May-24, 10:26

View PostDavidKok, on 2021-May-24, 02:27, said:

So I assume you pocketed your CC and said you would play the rest of the event without one?

No, but the next week I had two copies.
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