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System on? After a balancing 1NT

#1 User is offline   Hanoi5 

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Posted 2012-September-13, 21:34

The original question is:

after (1x)-Pa-(Pa)-1NT, do you play Stayman, Transfer, etc? What about Pa-(1x)-Pa-(Pa)-1NT?

Also, do you use the same range when balancing with 1NT over 1 of a minor than over 1 of a Major?

View Postwyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:

Also, he rates to not have a heart void when he leads the ♥3.


View Postrbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:

Besides playing for fun, most people also like to play bridge to win


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#2 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-September-13, 21:48

Our choice is:

After balancing NT, no.
After strong NT overcall in sandwich position, no.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#3 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2012-September-13, 22:09

View Postaguahombre, on 2012-September-13, 21:48, said:

Our choice is:

After balancing NT, no.
After strong NT overcall in sandwich position, no.

why?
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#4 User is offline   Quantumcat 

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Posted 2012-September-13, 22:26

View Postjillybean, on 2012-September-13, 22:09, said:

why?

In sandwich position there's a very good chance responder has a yarborough or close to it and would like to be able to get out in 2♣ or 2♦.

Not as sure about balancing position, but probably if you (direct over their 1-opening) have a decent hand with a five card suit you would have overcalled, so you either have a bad hand with a five card suit, or a bad or good balanced hand, or unbalanced but with their suit.

With a bad hand with a five card suit, it may be clubs or diamonds so you'd like to be able to play there. With the good or bad balanced hand or good or bad hand with their suit, you're either going to raise the notrumps or pass so there's no problem there. And with a good hand and a four card major (perhaps missing the other major so you couldn't make a takeout double) you can always make a cuebid.
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#5 User is offline   SteveMoe 

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Posted 2012-September-13, 23:32

Liking Quantumcat's thoughts about sandwich NT overcall.

For Balancing 1NT overcall, we'd double rather than bid 1NT with both majors. So over 1 minor P-P-1N denies as good as 34 majors. We do not promise a stopper in their suit with balancing 1N. When holding 4=2 in majors over LHO's 1 Minor bid we bid 1N and parner can cuebid stayman to find 4-4 fit. No transfers allows us to play in 2 other minor. Not see much gain from transferring to 10-14 hand. (Think responding structure over opening 10-12 1NT).

Over 1 Major-P-P we double with 10-14/6 and 4 cards in the other major. 1N here denies 4-cards in the OM.
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#6 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-September-13, 23:58

View Postaguahombre, on 2012-September-13, 21:48, said:

Our choice is:

After balancing NT, no.
After strong NT overcall in sandwich position, no.



View Postjillybean, on 2012-September-13, 22:09, said:

why?

Quantumcat pretty much covered it.
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#7 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2012-September-14, 02:00

After 1 ♦, ♥, ♠ openings or rebids and 1 NT from partner, I play 4 suit transfers, with transfer to their suit is stayman.
Over 1 ♣ 1NT pass I play system on.

The dwonside is: You cannot go out in 2 club.
Upside: You rightside many contracts and you make invitational bidding easier.
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#8 User is offline   dake50 

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Posted 2012-September-14, 05:25

Play 1C force opposite a passed partner - '3rd hand club'
Now if 1NT wanted exploring, he'd have started 1C.
Reopening 1NT:11-14 grabbitz-style with 2-bids to play.
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#9 User is offline   lowerline 

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Posted 2012-September-17, 06:15

View PostHanoi5, on 2012-September-13, 21:34, said:

The original question is:

after (1x)-Pa-(Pa)-1NT, do you play Stayman, Transfer, etc? What about Pa-(1x)-Pa-(Pa)-1NT?

Also, do you use the same range when balancing with 1NT over 1 of a minor than over 1 of a Major?


I use the following rule: If they pass after our 1nt then system is on.
So it does not matter whether 1nt was opened, overcalled or in balancing position. It matters what the next guy does.

In balancing position: after their 1m opening the range is 11-14 but after their 1M opening the range is 11-16.

Steven
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#10 User is offline   shingkit 

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Posted 2012-October-16, 23:44

Sorry. Wrong post. deleted
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#11 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2012-October-17, 00:31

View PostQuantumcat, on 2012-September-13, 22:26, said:

In sandwich position there's a very good chance responder has a yarborough or close to it and would like to be able to get out in 2♣ or 2♦.


Yes, do this too, but not after balancing because we play wide-ranging (to answer OP's other question), so we use strenght-defining rebids over 2♣, and also play transfers. Don't know if this is best; with the takeout doubles/overcalls/responses people make these days the balancing 1NT does not come up often enough for us to evaluate our methods.
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#12 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2012-October-17, 04:34

View PostHanoi5, on 2012-September-13, 21:34, said:

The original question is:

after (1x)-Pa-(Pa)-1NT, do you play Stayman, Transfer, etc?

Yes.

Quote

What about Pa-(1x)-Pa-(Pa)-1NT?

Why would I need Stayman when partner has shown a 2-suiter?

Quote

Also, do you use the same range when balancing with 1NT over 1 of a minor than over 1 of a Major?

Not quite. I would say my range is 11-14 over 1m and 11-16 over 1M.
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#13 User is offline   PhilKing 

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Posted 2012-October-17, 11:39

View Postmgoetze, on 2012-October-17, 04:34, said:




Why would I need Stayman when partner has shown a 2-suiter?





Pass-1x-P-P-1NT shows 10-11 bal where I come from.
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#14 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-October-17, 13:16

View PostPhilKing, on 2012-October-17, 11:39, said:

Pass-1x-P-P-1NT shows 10-11 bal where I come from.

I cannot imagine wanting to do that, but I don't come from there.
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#15 User is offline   PhilKing 

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Posted 2012-October-17, 17:29

View Postaguahombre, on 2012-October-17, 13:16, said:

I cannot imagine wanting to do that, but I don't come from there.


It's only recommended for intermediate level and above.

Perhaps 6-6 is more your thing.
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#16 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-October-17, 17:48

View PostPhilKing, on 2012-October-17, 17:29, said:

It's only recommended for intermediate level and above.

Perhaps 6-6 is more your thing.

Classy.
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#17 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2012-October-17, 17:48

View Postaguahombre, on 2012-October-17, 13:16, said:

I cannot imagine wanting to do that, but I don't come from there.


I do come from there, and I do not fancy it either.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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#18 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-October-17, 17:57

View PostVampyr, on 2012-October-17, 17:48, said:

I do come from there, and I do not fancy it either.

And apparently some people from there have manners, then.
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#19 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2012-October-17, 18:01

View Postaguahombre, on 2012-October-17, 17:57, said:

And apparently some people from there have manners, then.


Yes, some do, honest.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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#20 User is offline   PhilKing 

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Posted 2012-October-17, 18:10

View Postaguahombre, on 2012-October-17, 17:57, said:

And apparently some people from there have manners, then.


Vampyr does not come from where I ...
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