[arrows]

Open 2♦ showing both major suits, 5-5 or 5-4 either way, 6(5)-11 HCP?

[pbleighton]

No.

Peter

[arrows]

hmm... sounds not logical

While a "natural" 2♦ preemptive open is allowed, which only tell opps about 5 or 6 cards of your hand, this one tells 9 or 10 cards of your hand.

[hrothgar]

arrows, on Feb 3 2007, 12:02 AM, said:

Open 2♦ showing both major suits, 5-5 or 5-4 either way, 6(5)-11 HCP?

This isn't (really) a Flannery variant. Looks a lot more like a (crippled) version of an Ekrens type assumed fit opening.

Clearly not GCC legal. For whatever reason, the ACBL doesn't seem to like two suited preempts. The only two suited methods thats GCC legal with a preemptive hand is 2NT to show 5+ Clubs and 5+ Diamonds.

Don't ask about logic or consistency. You'll only end up with a headache.

[jtfanclub]

arrows, on Feb 2 2007, 04:02 PM, said:

Open 2♦ showing both major suits, 5-5 or 5-4 either way, 6(5)-11 HCP?

Absolutely illegal. Clearly defined as an 'additional' bid allowed in the Midchart, which makes it extra illegal in the General Convention Chart.

http://www.acbl.org/...vChart12_03.pdf

This is not a quote but, in general:
-----Two suited openings are legal at the two level, if:
1. They promise at least 10 HCP*, AND
2. Both suits are known, AND
3. The length in question is at least 5-4**, with either suit being the 5.

*Exception 1: A 2NT or higher NT opening can be weak with both minors.
**Exception 2: A 2♦ opening can be an unknown 3 suiter (Roman or mini-Roman) or 4-4 or better in the majors (modified Flannery), but you still have to have 10+ hcp.

The logic behind this is that beginning players won't have a defined meaning for bidding 2♥ vs. 2♠ vs. X over 2♦, so it's disallowed.

[blackshoe]

The latest version of the convention charts is at http://web2.acbl.org...nvchart2005.pdf
The one posted upthread is out of date.

That may be the logic behind this restriction - it may not. Beginning players won't have a defined defense to Romex' Dynamic NT either, but that's GCC legal.

[Double !]

I used to play opening 2D as 5-11 hcp with 5-5 (occasionally better) in the majors many-many years ago. I actually called the acbl to get a ruling on the bid a number of years ago. To make a short story long, I was informed that the 5-11 range was not permitted, that opening 2 diamonds to show majors requires 10+ hcp. So, I can affirm what jtfanclub and others have said r.e. the bid not being permitted.

(Mean ole acbl !! )

DHL.

[paulg]

This opening is not permitted at Mid Chart either. Although potentially legal, as it has four cards in a known suit, it is not permitted until there is an approved defense in the Defense Database.

Despite approval being given to the similar convention using a 2♥ opener, my guess is that no-one has actually applied for it using 2♦ as the opening bid.

Paul

[matmat]

jtfanclub, on Feb 2 2007, 05:31 PM, said:

The logic behind this is that beginning players won't have a defined meaning for bidding 2♥ vs. 2♠ vs. X over 2♦, so it's disallowed.

<RANT>
and it is logic like that that makes me wand to curse, yell, scream and generally be profane.

it's retared. it reminds me of my early years of schooling when the class program was slowed down for the dumb kids that didn;t want to study, so all of us snailed along learning how to fingerpaint instead of doing useful stuff.

blah.

ACBL seems to want to cater to the LOLs and the newbs instead of the people that actually care about the development and tactical aspects of the game. it's crap. total and utter.

thank goodness I'm not an acbl member anymore -- the pissy attitude of the players and ineptness of the directors around here didn't help the situation any either...

</RANT>

[blackshoe]

Matmat - that last comment makes me think your "around here" may be the same as mine, even though it probably isn't.

[helene_t]

jtfanclub, on Feb 3 2007, 12:31 AM, said:

The logic behind this is that beginning players won't have a defined meaning for bidding 2♥ vs. 2♠ vs. X over 2♦, so it's disallowed.

This makes some sense. Not that I agree completely, but actually I wouldn't be sure what a 2M overcall of such an opening would mean with my regular p. Despite the fact that we play weak Flannery ourselves