[HiddenSide]

In learning SAYC, I have come across a lot of different meanings for a cue-bid of opps suit - Michael's, strength, limit raise, stayman after a NT opening, asking for stopper (3 level when opps have bid one suit), and showing stopper when opps have bid 2 suits

Could someone elaborate both the standard SAYC meanings of cue-bids and also any common uses that I may run into playing against beginning/intermediate players?

Thanks

[kenrexford]

LOLOLOL!!!

You want a shortlist of all types of cuebids that are standard and ones that you might run up against in competitition? Please send two blank DVD's and I'll try to fit it all in.

Seriously, though, that's like asking what all the meanings are for a 2♣ bid, including all systems, all seats, and not just opening bids. In competition, passout, Opener-Advancer-Responder-Overcall, First round of bidding, second round of bidding, whatever.

There are quite a large number of uses for "cuebids," in other words.

I mean, even "Michaels" has more variations than most know. Most are aware that it shows some two suits, perhaps one of which is either minor. However, some use Michaels with different strengths, some use "Michaels" with specific major-minor. For that matter, the original version of "Michaels" apparently was a weak three-suiited takeout, not the modern two-suited.

[helene_t]

In general, a cue-bid shows a strong hand that for some reason cannot bid anything else. Typically this involves support for partner's suit. Without support for partner's suit, you can typically double, bid notrump, or bid a new suit.

Michael's cue-bid is an example of this (although partner didn't bid so "support for partner's suit" does not apply):
- You don't have support for all unibid suits since then you could double.
- You don't have a strong balanced hand since then you could have bid some number of notrumps.
- You don't have a single-suiter since then you could bid the suit followed by double (or in reverse order if you're even stronger)
- You don't have the two lower-ranking unbid suit since then you could have bid 2NT.

In SAYC, a cue-bid in protecting seat:
1x-p-p-2x
is not Michael's, but shows a strong hand with a void in opps' suit (don't want to double since partner might leave in the double).

In response to p's t/o double:
1x-dbl-p-2x
the cuebid is a general force, too strong for a single jump and without clear enough preference to bid game directly.

[pbleighton]

Most people play that after 1x-(overcall in suit y) that cue bidding suit y shows an invitational or better hand with support for suit x. Opener assumes it is invitational.

This is a very useful treatment. It allows all direct raises in suit x to be preemptive, and it removes the single raise from the overcaller's partner's response.

Peter

[blackshoe]

Nit: Mike Michaels did invent the Michaels cue bid, so I suppose either "Michaels cuebid" or "Michael's cuebid" is accurate. But the convention in naming conventions is to use the last name, not the first. Otherwise, we'd call a 2♣ response to 1NT "Sam".

[Cascade]

blackshoe, on Jul 13 2007, 12:25 AM, said:

Nit: Mike Michaels did invent the Michaels cue bid, so I suppose either "Michaels cuebid" or "Michael's cuebid" is accurate. But the convention in naming conventions is to use the last name, not the first. Otherwise, we'd call a 2♣ response to 1NT "Sam".

I thought with "Sam" the convention was to name the convention after someone who didn't invent it.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

I would suggest you buy a book, which deals with competitive
bidding,
e.g. Marshall Miles "Competive Bidding for the 21st century".

The reason: Quite often the only way to create a force is to
cue bid, and what the cue bid means is heaviliy depend on the
context.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[helene_t]

Cascade, on Jul 12 2007, 02:31 PM, said:

I thought with "Sam" the convention was to name the convention after someone who didn't invent it.

Yes, because it would be difficult to sell the "Marx" convention during the cold war.

[jtfanclub]

HiddenSide, on Jul 11 2007, 11:12 PM, said:

In learning SAYC, I have come across a lot of different meanings for a cue-bid of opps suit - Michael's, strength, limit raise, stayman after a NT opening, asking for stopper (3 level when opps have bid one suit), and showing stopper when opps have bid 2 suits

Could someone elaborate both the standard SAYC meanings of cue-bids and also any common uses that I may run into playing against beginning/intermediate players?

Thanks

A cue bid is always forcing.

It usually shows one of:

1. A strong hand, either with support for partner (limit raise +) or Game Forcing.
2. Shortness in the opponent's suit, and/or asking for a stopper in the suit for no-trump.

Originally, as somebody said, Michaels fell solidly into #2. Now it shows a two-suiter. Go figure.

Usually, #1 applies if,
1. Partner has bid.
2. The player making the cue bid hasn't yet shown a strong hand or support.
3. It's a minimum call.

#2 applies if
1. Partner has not bid, OR
2. Partner has already shown support or strength, OR
3. It's a jump to the three level, OR
4. It's delayed: 1C-(1H)-2D-3C-3H would ask for a heart stop for no-trump.


How can you tell if it's shortness or asking for a stopper? I generally can't. I bid like it's asking for a stopper, and if partner bids on, it must be shortness.

[FrancesHinden]

....or natural

(1 pear) x (1 peach) 2/3/4 peaches is always natural

Many people play that
(1 pear) Pass (1 peach) 2 peaches is natural

and there are quite a few more
(for example, I have an agreement that after a 2C opener, all "cue-bids" of an opponents' suit are natural unless I have already foregone the chance to defend the contract doubled)

[kenberg]

Let me list a few. There is often room for ambiguity but I will say when I think there is a general consensus and when I think there is not.

First when we open the bidding. I give the calls from all hands, even if a pass occurs.


1H 2C 3C
I would expect third hand to have hearts, not necessarily four, and invitational or better values.

1D 2C 3C
This is less certain, but I believe third hand should have clubs. With values but without clubs he is apt to be able to bid a major (five cards), make a negative double (at least one four card major and the ability to handle the response in any major he doesn't have. If he doesn't have both majors he needs a good hand.), or bid NT. So I think this cue should show clubs.


1C Pass 1S 2H
3H

Here there may be disagreement but I think this cue promises a good hand but does not promise spade support. Holding spades, opener could bid 2S, 3S or 4S as his strength dictates. It doesn't deny spades. The auction might continue:



1C Pass 1S 2H
3H Pass 3N Pass
4S

This is a huge hand with spade support, and probably first or second round control of hearts.

Now a few where they open and we compete.



1C 1H Pass 2C
This is likely to be heart support but folks vary here. This is connected to how you play
1C 1H Pass 2D
Some people play a new suit as forcing opposite an overcall, just as if our side had opened. Others, I think most, do not play the 2D as forcing. If not, then ask yourself what is fourth hand to do if by chance he has an excellent hand, diamonds, and, say, two cards support for hearts. The hand might belong in some number of hearts, some number of diamonds, some number of NT, who knows. It is practical to play
1C 1H Pass 2C as either a quite good hand with decent hearts, or a very good hand without full heart support. Probably you should have at least some hearts. This is not really a problem usually, since lacking a fit for your partner you are unlikely to think of your hand as good. You can, however, cover this case as well by using 1C 1H Pass 3D to show a very good hand where, unless your partner has a self supporting suit, the hand must be played in diamonds or NT.


1C pass 1H 2H

Ah yes, what is that? More than a few players, Mike Lawrence for example, says 2H shows hearts. Strong hand, strong hearts, not forcing. However, if you haven't discussed this bid with your partner it can be the start of a disaster. I believe it should show hearts. If you pass it, and your partner has spades and a minor, you have my sympathy.




2H 3H

Another toughie. Depending on who you are playing with, this either shows spades and a minor or it shows a desire to play 3NT if partner can stop hearts. In the latter case, the 3H bidder usually has a (hopefully) running minor and scattered values outside. This one also depends on your other agreements. For example
2H 4D is often played to show a strong hand with five spades and five diamonds (various names, I think Leaping Michaels is the usual moniker). Note the "strong". With a modest 5-5, second hand just bids spades. If Leaping Michaels is being played then almost certainly 2H 3H is requesting a stopper. In a pick-up, you are on your own for guessing the meaning.

This is a starter set for discussion purposes. I imagine I have already given some meanings that others will say are nuts. The language of cue bids is not exactly settled science. But you and a partner could start with this, accept or reject as you like, and it could cut down on the disasters.

Best wishes,
Ken

[blackshoe]

helene_t, on Jul 12 2007, 07:36 AM, said:

Cascade, on Jul 12 2007, 02:31 PM, said:

I thought with "Sam" the convention was to name the convention after someone who didn't invent it.

Yes, because it would be difficult to sell the "Marx" convention during the cold war.

Well, iirc, Marx's first name was Jack, so I suppose we could have called it that.

[ralph23]

♣♦♥♠

You may not have run across this yet with intermed players, but also be aware of the so-called "invisible" cue bid. This usually occurs when partner opens one-of-a-suit, and your RHO makes an artificial two-suited overcall (e.g. either Michaels or Unusual NT).

You can cue bid a suit that overcaller has shown (but not expressly bid) .... for example, as a strong (limit or better) raise of partner.

There are umpteen permutations, but here's a real simple one (you can experiment):

Partner opens 1♠, overcall of 2NT showing minors: Use the lowest known enemy suit as a limit+ raise of partner, and the other known suit as a forcing raise in the 4th suit. So, 3♣ by you is a good ♠ raise, and 3♦ by you is a forcing ♥ response. Then you can play 3♥ by you as natural and non-forcing.

If there's only one known enemy suit (partner opens e.g. 1♥ and you get a 2♥ Michaels overcall on your right), you only have one suit to cue bid in -- that is ♠ - and that is a limit or better raise of partner. 3 of a minor by you is natural and forcing.

There are lots of competing theories on invisible cue bids but I suggest you just adopt a simple method for now and get some experience with it before wandering too far into those.

[foo]

helene_t, on Jul 12 2007, 07:36 AM, said:

Cascade, on Jul 12 2007, 02:31 PM, said:

I thought with "Sam" the convention was to name the convention after someone who didn't invent it.

Yes, because it would be difficult to sell the "Marx" convention during the cold war.

We could always have used the proper NA name of either "George" or "Rapee" since that's who really invented Stayman in NA.

Sam simply wrote the BridgeWorld article.

[Dwingo]

I am reproducing an Article written by L. Subramanian on Cue-Bids with the permission of the author. This will be an useful article for Beginners/ Intermediate players.

CUE-BIDS

By definition, a cuebid is a forcing bid in a suit in which the bidder cannot wish to play. Broadly it can be classified into the following two types:

1) Bids to show controls at a high level after a suit has been agreed directly or by inference and 2) Bids in the opponents’ suit at any level.

Cuebids to show controls:

The classical example is the bid of a new suit at the four level by the opener after a limit raise by the responder, as below:-

Opener : Responder
1♥      :  3♥
4♦

The responder can initiate a cuebid too, as below:
Opener : Responder
1♣      :  1♥
3♥      :  4♦

In both the above examples a slam invitation is implied.

In modern treatment, a cuebid shows either the first or the second round control which can be either by length or by strength, i.e. singleton or king / void or ace.
Control showing cuebids are common at the four level but it is possible to use them even at the three level, though very rarely. The reason why it is not very common is that a new suit bid at the three level is better played as a fragment bid indicating stopper and suggesting three no-trump as the final contract. For example,

Opener : Responder
1♥      :  2 ♣
3♣      :  3 ♠

The 3♠ bid is not a cuebid suggesting slam, but a stopper - showing fragment bid aiming for three no-trump if opener can stop diamonds. The spade holding could be QJX.

Let us take a different sequence:
Opener : Responder
1♦      :  2♥
3♥      :  3♠

Here the 3♠ bid is a control showing cuebid as the partnership is unlikely to contract for 3 NT in preference to 4♥. As it is a strong sequence, the 3♠ should be treated as a cuebid showing slam interest.

Cuebids in the opponents’ suit:

In studying the meaning of various cuebids, the subject is considered from
a) overcaller’s view point, b) from responder’s view point.

a) Overcaller’s view point

It used to be the practice to make a cuebid in the opponents’ suit to show a single suiter game-going hand, like for example ♠ AKQJ64 ♥ AQ3 ♦AK4 ♣2 or a two-suiter game going hand, like for example ♠ K6 ♥ AKJ94 ♦ AKQJ6 ♣ 3 after a natural 1♣ opening . As the modern bidders realised that the opportunity to make a cuebid in this form rarely occurred , they developed methods to show two-suited hands with average strength which are more common than the powerful hands described above.

For example, ♠ KQ1042 ♥ A10632 ♦ 84 ♣ 4

RHO open 1♦. Cue bid 2♦. This is known as the Michael’s cuebid, indicating 6 – 11 HCP and 5-5 in the majors. If a major suit is opened by your RHO, a cuebid shows the other major and a minor with slightly higher values as the bidding may go to the three level. For example ♠ AJ1062 ♥ 4 ♦ KQ1092 ♣ K2. RHO opens 1♥. Cuebid 2♥ to show spades and a minor. If the overcaller’s partner wants to know the minor, he bids 2NT.

However, there are some who play the top and bottom cuebid where the two suits are pin-pointed. For example, a cuebid of 2♣ after RHO opens 1♣ shows spades and diamonds. Similarly, a cuebid of 2♦ after RHO opens 1♦ shows spades and clubs. A cuebid of 2♥ after a 1♥ opening shows spades and clubs, and a cuebid of 2♠ after a 1♠ shows hearts and clubs.

Example:♠ AJ1062 ♥ K4 ♦ 5 ♣ AQ1062. RHO opens 1♦. Cuebid 2♦ to show spades and clubs.

b) Responder’s view point

i) Responder of the opener: When RHO butts-in after partner’s opening bid, a cuebid of the intervened suit shows a minimum of three–card support for partner with invitational strength.

Example: ♠ KJ2 ♥ 84 ♦ KJ84 ♣ K642.
Partner opens 1♠. RHO Overcalls 2♥. Cue bid 3♥.
This is known as limit raise or better.

ii) Responder of the overcaller: Your LHO opens one of a suit. Partner overcalls. RHO passes. Cue bid of LHO’s suit shows limit raise or better, as before.

Special cuebids:

There are certain other special cuebids like

a) RHO opens one of a suit. You have an absolutely solid suit and some additional values but no check in the opened suit. What do you do?
Experts suggest a stopper asking jump cuebid as solution to this problem.
Example: ♠ A5 ♥ 8 ♦AKQ10543 ♣ KJ3.
RHO opens 1♥. Cuebid 3♥.

b) RHO opens one of a suit. You have a strong 5-4-3-1 semi three suiter or strong 4-4-4-1 hand . What do you do?
Experts suggest a take-out double and follow with a strength showing cuebid.
Example: ♠ AK95 ♥ 8 ♦AKQ5 ♣ AQ103.
RHO opens 1♥. Make a take out double and follow with a cuebid of 2♥.

c) Partner opens one of a suit. RHO makes a simple overcall in a suit at the one or two level. You have a opening hand but no stopper in the intervened suit . What do you do?
Experts suggest a negative double and follow with a stopper asking cuebid.
Example: ♠ AK95 ♥ J2 ♦ 1053 ♣ KQ103.
Partner opens 1♥. RHO overcalls 2♦ . Make a negative double and follow with cuebid 3♦, if partner rebids 3♣. If partner rebids 2♠, you will raise him to game.

d) You open 1 NT (15-17) . Partner responds 3♠ , indicating 10 + HCP and a good six-card suit . As opener you have good support for partner (honor third or better)and preferably with ruffing value and with excellent controls . What do you do?
Example: ♠ K952 ♥ A2 ♦ AKJ5 ♣ Q103.
To partner’s 3♠ response to your 1 NT , make an advance cuebid of 4♦ to suggest trump support and a good hand with controls. You will not be introducing your suit at this level and so partner will construe it as a cuebid though trump is not actually agreed. It is important to note here that you deny club control by your 4♦ cuebid as you are expected to make the cheapest cuebid.

e) Indirect cuebid :This is a sort of a counter by the opening side against conventional two –suiter bids made by the defending side with the cuebid of the implied suits being used to show stoppers , unbid suits etc.

i) Partner    RHO    You
  1 NT      2♣*     2♥/2♠    *Landy
Here 2♥ shows heart stopper and invitational values. Likewise 2♠ shows spade stopper and invitational values.
Example: ♠ AQ5 ♥ J2 ♦ 10953 ♣ KJ103.

Partner opens 1 NT(15-17). RHO overcalls 2♣ ,Landy . Bid 2♠ to show spade stopper and 8-9 HCP.

ii) Partner   RHO        You
  1♣*       1 NT**      2♣/ 2♦   *Precision    ** Minors
Here 2♣ shows five –card heart suit and 5-7HCP.
Likewise 2♦ shows five – card spade suit and 5 – 7 HCP.

Example: ♠ 95 ♥ KJ1082 ♦ K53 ♣ 642.
Partner opens 1♣ (Precision). RHO overcalls 1 NT(Minors) . Bid their implied suit of clubs with a bid 2♣ to show 5-7 HCP and five hearts. If your hand had been
♠ KJ1082 ♥ 95 ♦ K53 ♣ 642. you would bid 2♦ to show 5-7 HCP and five spades .

f) Partner opens one of a suit .RHO overcalls at the one level . You have an opening hand yourself and stopper in the intervened suit .What do you do?
Marty Bergen suggests that you make a stopper showing jump cuebid to show such a hand , asking partner to bid 3 NT which may play better from the other side.

Example: ♠ A95 ♥ K92 ♦ K105 ♣ K643.
Partner opens 1♦ . RHO overcalls 1♠ . Bid 3♠ . If partner has the following hand: ♠ Q6 ♥ A63 ♦ AQ632 ♣ J52 and bids 3 NT , you can appreciate the usefulness of the jump cuebid.

g) No –trump cuebid !! : This is an extreme case of cuebid suggested by Reese & Flint as long as thirty years ago . Supposing RHO overcalls 1 NT against your partner’s one of the minor and you have 6-5 in the majors with game interest , what do you do? The solution according to them is to bid 2 NT!! to describe such a hand.
Example: ♠ KJ9543 ♥ A9532 ♦ 5 ♣ 6.
Partner opens 1♦ . RHO overcalls 1 NT . Bid 2 NT!! . If partner has a suitable hand he can bid game in the major in which he has good support for you .

[SoTired]

foo, on Jul 12 2007, 06:34 PM, said:

helene_t, on Jul 12 2007, 07:36 AM, said:

Cascade, on Jul 12 2007, 02:31 PM, said:

I thought with "Sam" the convention was to name the convention after someone who didn't invent it.

Yes, because it would be difficult to sell the "Marx" convention during the cold war.

We could always have used the proper NA name of either "George" or "Rapee" since that's who really invented Stayman in NA.

Sam simply wrote the BridgeWorld article.

As a possibly interesting side note, Goren so hated Sam Stayman that he refused to call it "Stayman," instead refering to it as the "2C convention."