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ordinary lead problem

#21 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2007-November-08, 12:19

Wow my leads suck. :)

I am the only one leading a club...in fact some say a club is their last choice. :P
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#22 User is offline   Apollo81 

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Posted 2007-November-08, 12:24

I think I would probably lead a club, which I think is the most aggressive lead. A diamond seems less risky but there is also less to gain. A spade is IMO the most passive lead, and may well be right, but since it's IMPs I would hope to hit something like QJx or Qxx in partner's hand in clubs, which is probably our best hope to set.
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#23 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2007-November-08, 12:29

I led a club without thinking about it much. A spade is passive but it doesn't accomplish much and and a diamond could just as easily blow a trick. The difference between a club and a diamond is that we might survive a bad club lead but a diamond lead could be fatal.

I'm not convinced at all about this reasoning however.
"Phil" on BBO
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#24 User is offline   ceeb 

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Posted 2007-November-08, 13:04

. Admittedly gives us a clearer route to 4 tricks. However, passive defense may be sufficient if we can kill dummy's entries and is better for that.
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#25 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2007-November-08, 14:33

On these auctions, I always lead a diamond (with this hand :) ). Part of it is habit, but I am comfortable with that approach since (he says with no modesty at all) opening leads are a strong part of my game.

Ok, why?

Any lead but a trump might be right....heck, even a trump might be right if only Edit: I got interrupted in my post, so when I cam back I had forgotten my trump holding :)

A spade has an immediate payoff if partner has the 'right' hand, but may be immediately fatal on some layouts while merely losing a tempo on many more.

A club is the most aggressive, and, while I often underlead Kings, this auction doesn't sound like the time to do it. Declarer will have a doubleton club too often, and, when he does, you may blow the trick you were entitled to.

A diamond seems a little safer, while still possessing some degree of aggression. It is less likely, than the club, to cost a trick we'd otherwise get and almost as likely to establish a trick before declarer can get a pitch (or two). The main downside (altho not the only one) is that we hit partner with the A and remove a guess for declarer.
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#26 User is offline   awm 

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Posted 2007-November-08, 14:41

Spade lead for me.

Sometimes declarer wins, takes a heart finesse, and I score the Q plus a ruff. Maybe he will even figure that "I would never lead a singleton with Qxx of trump" and take a heart finesse even after spade to the ace and a ruff.

Frequently on this auction partner has good spades behind dummy's good spades, and I just don't want to give a trick. People bid a lot of games that don't make if you just don't give it to them. :)
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#27 User is offline   jtfanclub 

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Posted 2007-November-08, 14:46

Jlall, on Nov 7 2007, 11:28 PM, said:

x Qxx QTxxx KT87

1H p 1S p 3H p 4H p p p. Imps. Your lead.

In my usual idiocy, I lead a spade.

Why?

Because if I didn't have a Potential heart trick, the spade lead would be obvious. So if I don't lead a spade, it may become obvious that I have a potential heart trick.

So I lead a spade, trying my best to look like I don't have the heart queen. Who knows? I may convince them to finesse the hearts the wrong way, especially if a finesse the wrong way would cost an extra trick (say, AJTxxx across Kx). Heck, I had one of those where I led a spade, got a ruff, exited out with some minor suit, and when the opponent drew trumps he took the king and finessed my partner! After all, I must not have the heart Q for my opening lead, so the finesse is an excellent play.

Stupid, I know. But at least I'm consistent.

Edit: Damn, somebody better than me posted the same logic at the same time.
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#28 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2007-November-08, 14:50

Well, I wouldn't lead a spade for 2 reasons:

1. Pard prolly has a spade trick, but, unless he has 2, we're just helping out declarer setting up the suit.

2. Been having bad results from leading spades on situations like these!!!!!
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#29 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2007-November-08, 15:10

I don't lead against potentially marginal games at IMP's until I predict as much as I can.

GENERAL ANALYSIS: 3 is a somewhat mild bid. People have a tendency to overbid at IMP's with a GF jump shift into a minor frequently. 3 often is of questionable values. Responder often bids game because he feels that he must. He might have made a cue of some variety with extra stuff.

SPECIFIC ANALYSIS: I have 7 HCP. It seems fair bet that partner has something like 5-10 HCP's. I'm expecting a spade card as likely. Spades still worry me as a possible ditch source. I think I want to work on clubs.

CLUB SUIT ANALYSIS: Partner will likely get in in spades soon enough to continue the club assault. I'll give Declarer the Ace and two more cards in clubs, because I want that, and Dummy three clubs as well, because I want that. If partner has Q-J, nothing I play matters. If partner has just the Q, however, my card might matter. If Declarer has AJx, it looks best to lead the 8 (third best). However, the 8 looks like top of trash. Hopefully partner will work this out if that is my choice3.

Maybe, however, Declarer has A9x. In that event, I need to lead the 10, a surrounding play. If I lead the 10, I can still win against AJx if partner has the 9. However, I lose when Declarer has AJ9 or AJx with 9xx in dummy. If I lead the 10 to catch J9x in dummy, we were dead anyway.

So, the 3-3 situations of concern are:

1. Jxx in dummy, A9x or Axx with Declarer (lead 10)
2. AJ9 with Declarer (lead 8)
3. AJx with Declarer, 9xx on dummy (lead 8)

If the Jack is in dummy, then, the 10 wins in two situations concerning the 9 and does not hurt in the remaining (J9x on dummy).

If the Jack is with Declarer, then the 10 hurts if Declarer or dummy has the 9, but not if Declarer has it.

This seems like 50-50, roughly. So, the question seems to be a pure "where's the Jack?"

Well, I want Declarer to have AKJxxx in hearts, Hx in spades, A?x in clubs, and Ax/Kx in diamonds, with Dummy having the other diamond card, nothng in hearts, and a few points in spades. I'm having trouble tossing in the diamond JAck with Opener.

So, perhaps because of the auction, I'll decide that Dummy has the club Jack and attack with the club 10.

Actually, I really love the surrounding-play opening-lead stories.
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#30 User is offline   bhall 

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Posted 2007-November-08, 15:17

The auction suggests that partner holds about 7-9 HCP, split among the off suits. We rate to take about 3 defensive tricks due to our likely favorable high-card positions, and quite possibly a fourth by development.

My length in diamonds suggests that this may be opener's short suit, which decreases the odds of developing a trick there. My tenace in clubs suggests that a club lead could blow our control of that suit as often as it develops a trick. All things considered, I would lead a small diamond.

This does not appear to be a hand where I need to "get lucky" in order to set the contract. I certainly wouldn't raise an eyebrow if my partner elected to lead an unlucky club, however.
just plain Bill
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#31 User is offline   skjaeran 

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Posted 2007-November-08, 15:54

I'm a diamond leader here - I mostly agree with Mikeh's analysis.
Kind regards,
Harald
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#32 User is offline   ulven 

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Posted 2007-November-08, 16:38

Spade for me. Garozzo.
"When I'm working on a problem, I never think about beauty. I think only how to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong."
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#33 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2007-November-09, 14:17

Just for completeness I'll give results. I led a spade (for passivity rather than ruffs). This worked but only for a random reason, dummy was 6241 with S/H/D kings. You need to lead trumps before declarer starts ruffing clubs, and since partner had the AQJ of spades he won the spade lead and shifted to a trump.
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#34 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2007-November-09, 17:35

Jlall, on Nov 9 2007, 03:17 PM, said:

You need to lead trumps before declarer starts ruffing clubs,

Ha!
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#35 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2007-November-14, 18:19

Jlall, on Nov 7 2007, 11:28 PM, said:

x Q x x Q T x x x K T 8 7

1 _P 1 _P
3 _P 4 AP
Imps. Your lead.

IMO = 10, = 9, = 8, = 6

Cards seem to lie badly for declarer, so a passive lead seems best.

Any lead may give away a trick but longer suits tend to be safer and may be OK if partner holds the king or knave.

RHO's jump to 3 may be predicated on a fit, so seem more risky. In favour of a lead, however, is that partner is marked with values so may be able to give you ruffs. A has the particular merit of working as the cards lie :blink: Jlall did well to find it :)
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#36 User is offline   keylime 

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Posted 2007-November-14, 20:40

My lead agreements mandate a diamond length due to the auction, and the fact that I have a potential trump winner.

Additionally, Mike's and bhall's arguments are similar to my views.
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