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competeing over 3 level prempts

#1 User is offline   jdaming 

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Posted 2008-January-07, 17:53



Dealer opens 3 to you? Assuming you double it goes pass 3 pass-?

1) Do you double?

2) What do you do on ?

3) is there any systems or anything that most people play for this?

4) Assuming you get to open what do you open?

Enjoy
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#2 User is online   awm 

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Posted 2008-January-07, 18:01

I would have bid 3NT over 3. This is the most likely game contract. Even if we have a 5-3 spade fit, a bad break is not unlikely on the auction and 3NT might play better. Being able to hold up until the third round of hearts is also potentially key. Passing with 19 high is ridiculous (misses too many games). Double can get us too high if partner bids 4 on a four-card suit or 4m on a random hand with no heart stopper.

Having doubled and heard 3, I would bid 3NT. This should be choice of games, allowing partner to correct to spades with five. Obviously game might not make, but partner is odds-on to hold a few points (5-7 is more likely than 0-4, and he would not bid game with either range).

There are not really "systems" available over a 3M preempt. People have some agreements about how to show two-suited hands, what the strength requirement is for a jump in a new suit, and whether double followed by bidding a suit shows a flexible hand or a strong one-suiter. But none of these really pertain to big balanced hands.

Some people do have methods after 3M-3NT where responder can use 4 to find out whether the 3NT call was based on a balanced hand (and if so how strong) or a running suit (and if so which).

If I were allowed to open unobstructed, I would open 1 planning to rebid 2NT next, which is the standard way to deal with a balanced 19-count.
Adam W. Meyerson
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#3 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2008-January-07, 19:12

Hammans rule etc etc. If I knew pard would bid 3S over my X I would X and bid 3N since that's better for this hand.
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#4 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2008-January-07, 19:18

I will follow Lall's rule: "Quote Hamman's rule when it is right."
I would definitely bid 3N. In fact, I would like to make it cherdano's rule: "Bid 3N when it is the only option." (Double just doesn't work well when partner bids a minor.)
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
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#5 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2008-January-07, 19:34

Arend has a great rule in these situations. Bid 3N when its possible.

Since I always try to do what Arend suggests, I'll bid 3N :P
"Phil" on BBO
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#6 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2008-January-07, 21:53

pclayton, on Jan 7 2008, 08:34 PM, said:

Arend has a great rule in these situations. Bid 3N when its possible.

Believe that is Hamman's rule, not what Arend said. Arend's rule was a joke implying that this problem is very easy.
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#7 User is offline   jdaming 

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Posted 2008-January-08, 07:39

Partner's hand was this: (hidden)
Spoiler


This is more why I thought the hand was difficult. I am fairly certain my partner should have done a little bit more after my 3nt. Or for that matter bid something much different than 3. What I am not sure though. So lets pretend it is a perfect world and you play both hands what do you do with each?
All IMO. Junior wanting to soak up all the knowledge he can.
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#8 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2008-January-08, 07:45

Helene's rule says that according to Phil's rule, one should follow Arend's rule which says that Justin's rule applies to this situation. So I would have bid 3NT.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#9 User is online   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2008-January-08, 07:56

#1 No, I bid 3NT
#2 Having made a t/o X, I now bid 3NT
#3 t/o X, 3NT shows something like a strong NT
4C, 4D are sometimes played as 2-suiters,
the minor and the unbid mayor
4NT would show both minors

After a 3NT overcall of the preemot, it makes sense
to play your usual NT structure, i.e. 4C as stayman,
4D / 4H as transfer

#4 1C, assumin 1NT is 15-17 and 2NT is 20-21.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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