[cherdano]

Why can't we get to 3N via X 2H 3D 3S 3N?

[655321]

Double for me, and then if partner bids 4♥ I pass.

[mikeh]

cherdano, on Feb 6 2008, 04:59 PM, said:

Why can't we get to 3N via X 2H 3D 3S 3N?

because on most of the hands that make 3N a good contract, advancer isn't strong enough to bid 3♠. xxx J10xx xxx Kxx is a hand on which 3N is essentially cold, and yet I don't know anyone who would move over 3♦. I am amongst the strongest overcallers around, so my double and bid sequences show GOOD hands, but even hands such as Ax Axx AKQJxx Qx don't (usually) make 3N on the marked spade lead.... and I wouldn't have that good a hand for double then 3♦.

[jdonn]

mikeh, on Feb 6 2008, 05:48 PM, said:

cherdano, on Feb 6 2008, 04:59 PM, said:

Why can't we get to 3N via X 2H 3D 3S 3N?

because on most of the hands that make 3N a good contract, advancer isn't strong enough to bid 3♠. xxx J10xx xxx Kxx is a hand on which 3N is essentially cold, and yet I don't know anyone who would move over 3♦.

Hi I'm Josh, nice to meet you

[Cascade]

ArtK78, on Feb 7 2008, 06:59 AM, said:

Apollo81, on Feb 6 2008, 12:44 PM, said:

Incidentally, what would you do if for some reason you weren't playing Unusual 2NT?  Would you bid 2NT?  I'd be pretty tempted.

As this question is relevant only in some universe of which I am not aware, I cannot answer this question.

I had to rule on an unalerted natural 2NT over 1♠ in an ACBL tournament this afternoon.

That universe is much closer than it seems.

[jtfanclub]

Cascade, on Feb 6 2008, 06:04 PM, said:

I had to rule on an unalerted natural 2NT over 1♠ in an ACBL tournament this afternoon.

That universe is much closer than it seems.

Showing 19-21 hcp? I'm curious, what did you rule?

I would generally rule not alertable, because if you'd played in an environment where 2NT overcalls were balanced 19-21 hcp you'd never guess in a million years that they'd be alertable. It's that same logic that got strong 2s no longer alerted. Now, if only a 2♣ opening showing clubs stopped being alertable....

Sorry, I got off-topic.

[Cascade]

jtfanclub, on Feb 7 2008, 12:12 PM, said:

Cascade, on Feb 6 2008, 06:04 PM, said:

I had to rule on an unalerted natural 2NT over 1♠ in an ACBL tournament this afternoon.

That universe is much closer than it seems.

Showing 19-21 hcp? I'm curious, what did you rule?

I would generally rule not alertable, because if you'd played in an environment where 2NT overcalls were balanced 19-21 hcp you'd never guess in a million years that they'd be alertable. It's that same logic that got strong 2s no longer alerted. Now, if only a 2♣ opening showing clubs stopped being alertable....

Sorry, I got off-topic.

It seems they are alertable when I checked. So I told him to alert next time.

The opponent wanted an adjustment because he bid again and got doubled and went for -1100. I refused the adjustment because:

1. He was vul vs not

2. His partner was silent

3. He had around 11 hcp

4. He rebid a five-card spade suit (the suit he had opened)

[han]

Good ruling!

[Cascade]

Although I agree that it is harsh to rule that something is alertable when that person might never heard of anything else. As a bridge teacher of real new learners I have always advocated that the alerting system should include none or very few bids that they need to alert.

[jtfanclub]

Cascade, on Feb 6 2008, 06:18 PM, said:

It seems they are alertable when I checked. So I told him to alert next time.

The Rule is...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PART IX: DEFENSIVE AND COMPETITIVE CALLS

A jump to 2NT to show the minors or the lower unbid suits is not Alertable. A bid of 3NT as unusual must be Alerted. A bid of 4NT is not Alertable as long as the prior bid was by an opponent. Non-jump unusual notrump bids below 4NT, except those made by a passed hand, must be Alerted.

Natural jump overcalls that are weak do not require an Alert. All other natural and conventional meanings are Alertable. Unusual overcalls, including the tendency to overcall at the two level frequently with a suit of fewer than five cards or with less than two-over-one values (approximately 10 HCP), must be Alerted.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

An unusual 2NT does not have to be alerted, but I can't find anywhere that says that a usual 2NT does have to be alerted. There are lots of cases where multiple meanings do not have to be alerted, so I don't think we can assume that usual 2NT is alertable.

I would tell him to please alert it in the future as a courtesy (the highly unusual or unexpected rule), but I think until you tell him what's usual in your tournanment, you can't penalize him for not alerting that bid. After all, for all we know, in Gobi Desert Standard the unusual 2NT is the exception.

[the hog]

I would certainly x on this hand. This is too good for a simple overcall. Art posted a x KQJTxx Jxxx xx hand. In which universe is this not a 2H opening?

[655321]

The_Hog, on Feb 6 2008, 09:09 PM, said:

Art posted a x KQJTxx Jxxx xx hand. In which universe is this not a 2H opening?

OK, it does not refute your point that x KQJTxx Jxxx xx is not a passed hand, but in my universe this is a NV 3♥ opening, not a 2♥ milquetoast effort.