[gwnn]

LHO is interesting cause usually people don't tend to care about their opps' mistakes:) see also "reset score pls", whenever their initial score is negative.

btw it's not a novice bid, novices and experts tend to use the same wjo's the people in between usually try to mix them up, with small success. if anything, experts retain their real high odr wjos NV like KJT9x x xxx JTxx over 1m, novices would usually not think about it.

[benlessard]

I like your 2S bid i dont think missing game is that likely and im not afraid of 2S X. I dont care too much about ODR and AT8xxx is enough suit quality for W vs R.

I agree that sometimes we will make a phantom but sometimes sac will be cheap.

I suspect most of the overcaller would rebid 2S over (2C or 2H) in my sense its much safer to jump to 2S right away + you can also bury a H fit. Its enough compensation for some games that you will missed.

Also 4S is still reachable, for this hand partner had a clear 3C bid and you have an easy accept.

[mikeh]

skaeran, on Feb 29 2008, 01:17 AM, said:

This hand is just a little too good offensively to overcall 2♠. We might still have game. But this is a minor flaw compared with:

The hand is far too good defensively. With 2.5 (or even more) defensive tricks, making a wjo will far too often induce partner to make the wrong decision over 4♥, making a phantom save.

So this is a clear 1♠ to me.

agree

[whereagles]

A bit unlucky. Most of the time pard won't have a hand where game makes. On this particular layout, you still have a lot of work to do.

[FrancesHinden]

There's nothing wrong with the concept of randomising weak JOs when partner is a passed hand (particularly at favourable). When asked about our range, we say "weak, but very wide ranging, may be a 5-card suit and can up to any decent opening hand where we believe we cannot have game on"

After P 1C ? I would overcall 2S on

KJ10xx x xxx xxxx

and also quite likely on

KQJxxx Kx xxx xx

(KQJxxx x xxx xxx is a 3S bid)

However in line with everyone else I don't think this is the hand for it: it has too much defensive strength and too much risk of going negative in 2S (or 3S or 4S if partner raises) against nothing making the other way.

Anyway, bidding 2S on the hand is a long way short of the worst bid seen in a few hands in the BBO main room. LHO 'removing' you from the table is a little over-sensitive if he thinks that's a particularly poor bid...

[jtfanclub]

FrancesHinden, on Mar 4 2008, 05:47 AM, said:

it has too much defensive strength and too much risk of going negative in 2S (or 3S or 4S if partner raises) against nothing making the other way.

I've had agreements before where partner never raises a 'passed partner' wjo. You're sacrificing 'two handed bridge' for 'four handed bridge': your partner can't support you, but you get to interfere while passing almost no information to the opponents: whether you have a fit, who has the outside points, etc. Just curious if such insanity is unique, or if other people have tried it.

[FrancesHinden]

Well, we have the agreement that partner needs a very very very special hand to raise a third seat green weak two.

Even with that agreement I would overcall 1S on the given hand as game is possible opposite a fit.

This auction is similar, but on the original hand there wasn't any suggestion from the OP that we had this agreement with partner.

[whereagles]

jtfanclub, on Mar 4 2008, 04:34 PM, said:

I've had agreements before where partner never raises a 'passed partner' wjo.  You're sacrificing 'two handed bridge' for 'four handed bridge': your partner can't support you, but you get to interfere while passing almost no information to the opponents: whether you have a fit, who has the outside points, etc.  Just curious if such insanity is unique, or if other people have tried it.

I don't agree with that. A passed pard WJO has a wide range and can be 11-13 or so with good suit. Pard can, AND SHOULD, act if he has a good fit + something worth telling. Be it shape, side suit or whatnot.

In the present case, advancer pard kinda owed overcaller a noise. He's got a max and 4 card support. It's not wrong to pass (you might push them into a making game if you bid, for instance), but it's certainly not wrong to bid.

Obviously, table leader knew absolutely nothing about this. If someone at table was the nooblar, it was him.. lol.

[jtfanclub]

whereagles, on Mar 4 2008, 01:40 PM, said:

I don't agree with that. A passed pard WJO has a wide range and can be 11-13 or so with good suit. Pard can, AND SHOULD, act if he has a good fit + something worth telling. Be it shape, side suit or whatnot.

It has to be a partnership agreement. If you have such an agreement, then bidding 2♠ with a hand like this either means that one of your opps was holding his hand a little low, or partner gave you the double-secret "I gotta go potty, make me dummy" signal.

And you and Frances are right. Yes, there are times when even when you're playing passed hand WJO=signoff, you'll still have a hand that makes a raise, usually with side shortness. But it's supposed to be rare- the WJO bidder is bidding where you should be if partner has 3 card support and 6-9 hcp, so you certainly don't want to raise with that hand!

[whereagles]

Yeah, 3 card support isn't enough to raise a passed hand WJO. Especially NV or with a flattish hand.