[yaohung]

Scoring: IMP

North 1♠ and 2♣ by East pass pass to North to reopen with 2♦ and pass out. NS ended up with 42 fit instead of 53 fit. What's the major issue here?

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[cherdano]

2♦ is terrible, assuming takeout doubles.

[jdonn]

North's 2♦ bid instead of double is awful. It's an interesting question whether south should bid or pass first, I think most could bid but I would understand why others would pass. Anyway he certainly had no reason to remove 2♦ - in fact north's failure to double suggested short hearts at that point.

[crazy4hoop]

Not thinking, I voted for the first pass as the worst bid, figuring that this hand should not sit for a reopening double and should therefore bid an immediate 2♥. After thinking about it some more, I guess this hand could always just bid 4♥ over a reopening double so if I could change my vote, I would make the 2♦ bid the most egregious call made in this auction (again, as on poster stated, assuming playing negative doubles).

[andy_h]

I think I would X with South's hand over 2C. In any event, North has a clear cut reopening X so I would say 2D was the worst bid.

[the hog]

Agree with the others that 2D was poor. You have a hand playable in 3 suits; why show it as a 2 suiter?

[yaohung]

two issues...

a) If swich ♥ and ♦ suit for south hand, south should double or pass after 2♣ overall by East?
negative double promised length in unbid suits is the old fashion style, it seems that negative double with one single suit has become acceptable? any observation for this trend?

[cherdano]

yaohung, on Jul 31 2008, 10:34 PM, said:

two issues...

a) If swich ♥ and ♦ suit for south hand, south should double or pass after 2♣ overall by East?
negative double promised length in unbid suits is the old fashion style, it seems that negative double with one single suit has become acceptable? any observation for this trend?

Nobody suggested South should make a negative double. However, North has a clear reopening double, not matter whether he is 5341 or 5431.

[pclayton]

South chose to trap with a trump stack but with a nice side suit. I wouldn't do it, but it isn't criminal.

2♦ is awful and caused the disaster. North needs basic bidding lessons.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

if you dont play Neg. free bids pass by South after 2C is fine,
a neg. X is certainly not a mandatory bid.

North should make a reopening X, it is his safest auction.

South may or may not Pass 2D, the 2D does only promise
4 cards (most likely denying 6 spades), so he has to choose,
if he preferes the 4-2 to the 5-1 spade fit.

The 2D bid by North is the worst bid.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[peachy]

You asked what the major issue is. You probably have already figured out from the responses what it is = North's bidding 2D.

[FrancesHinden]

I feel like I'm turning into Justin (help!!!!) but.... why is this 'advanced and expert class bridge'?

[OleBerg]

FrancesHinden, on Aug 1 2008, 12:00 PM, said:

I feel like I'm turning into Justin (help!!!!) but.... why is this 'advanced and expert class bridge'?

Because many advanced players would make a negative double with the South hand.

In which case North would expect South to be less likely to hold hearts, as he/she didn't double, thus making the 2♦ call more attractive.

Not hard to imagine North arguing for his 2<D> bid:

"I could see from the auction, that you had some values, and as you didn't double, you couldn't hold four hearts."

Thats why you're Experts, while North is only Advanced.

[peachy]

OleBerg, on Aug 1 2008, 05:28 AM, said:

FrancesHinden, on Aug 1 2008, 12:00 PM, said:

I feel like I'm turning into Justin (help!!!!) but.... why is this 'advanced and expert class bridge'?

Because many advanced players would make a negative double with the South hand.

In which case North would expect South to be less likely to hold hearts, as he/she didn't double, thus making the 2♦ call more attractive.

Not hard to imagine North arguing for his 2<D> bid:

"I could see from the auction, that you had some values, and as you didn't double, you couldn't hold four hearts."

Thats why you're Experts, while North is only Advanced.

Trying to justify the 2D bid would be evidence that North still needs to learn some basics. Trying to justify it after reading what several world class or true expert players [don't include me] have said about it, would be rather dumb IMO.

[ArcLight]

Jlall, on Aug 1 2008, 02:11 AM, said:

I don't think south has chosen to trap pass necessarily, he can't bid 2H since his hand sucks and he has major rebid issues, and making a neg X seems dumb with support for only 1 suit and length in clubs (so if partner passes out 2C thats probably right). I think south passed simply because he had no bid. North has a normal reopening X and south would then bid 3H and play there.

I must not understand Negative doubles, as I think X by South is the correct bid.

I thought the modern treatment of Neg Dbls was heavy emphasis on the other major, as opposed to also having tolerance for the minor. If opener bids 2D in response to X, then you can correct to 2NT. You have a double Club stopper.
You do have a planned response to 2D.

OR am I overlooking/misunderstanding something?
The 2NT rebid is bad?

[mcphee]

One does not make a neg dble over 2C, after all just how happy are you when partner rebids his 5 card S suit and you miss 5-3H? Granted this may not happen but they are never going to bid a 3 card H suit.

Players often get confused with the word dble. and I expect that is what happened with the opening hand when they rebid 2D. This person needs to review "re-opening" this hand is perfect for dble.

[OleBerg]

peachy, on Aug 1 2008, 01:22 PM, said:

OleBerg, on Aug 1 2008, 05:28 AM, said:

FrancesHinden, on Aug 1 2008, 12:00 PM, said:

I feel like I'm turning into Justin (help!!!!) but.... why is this 'advanced and expert class bridge'?

Because many advanced players would make a negative double with the South hand.

In which case North would expect South to be less likely to hold hearts, as he/she didn't double, thus making the 2♦ call more attractive.

Not hard to imagine North arguing for his 2<D> bid:

"I could see from the auction, that you had some values, and as you didn't double, you couldn't hold four hearts."

Thats why you're Experts, while North is only Advanced.

Trying to justify the 2D bid would be evidence that North still needs to learn some basics. Trying to justify it after reading what several world class or true expert players [don't include me] have said about it, would be rather dumb IMO.

My guess is that North didn't have the option of consulting these experts before he made his bid.

[jdonn]

ArcLight, on Aug 1 2008, 06:50 AM, said:

Jlall, on Aug 1 2008, 02:11 AM, said:

I don't think south has chosen to trap pass necessarily, he can't bid 2H since his hand sucks and he has major rebid issues, and making a neg X seems dumb with support for only 1 suit and length in clubs (so if partner passes out 2C thats probably right). I think south passed simply because he had no bid. North has a normal reopening X and south would then bid 3H and play there.

I must not understand Negative doubles, as I think X by South is the correct bid.

I thought the modern treatment of Neg Dbls was heavy emphasis on the other major, as opposed to also having tolerance for the minor. If opener bids 2D in response to X, then you can correct to 2NT. You have a double Club stopper.
You do have a planned response to 2D.

OR am I overlooking/misunderstanding something?
The 2NT rebid is bad?

South would be overbidding by a queen or so.

[SoTired]

I agree that South should pass and North made a mistake by bidding 2D instead of X.

But I want to make a point: A negative dbl by South over 2C is not that poor a bid.

Let's say the bidding went 1S (2C) X (p); 2D (p) 2H. What does South have? Since South did not bid an immediate 2H, South does not have 10 HCP, so 2H is to play. Since North has bid 2 suits, South needs a 6-card heart suit to want to play in hearts. But AKxxx is not that bad.

2N instead really sucks. Avoid NT with misfits. Especially when 2N would be an overbid. A 5-2 heart would be preferable. When you play misfits in NT, you always get stuck in the wrong hand and end up leading away from honors as the defense gets trick after trick, always putting you back in the wrong hand. No fun at all.