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Bidding First, then Play

#21 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2008-September-29, 14:36

mikeh, on Sep 29 2008, 03:31 PM, said:

edited for redundancy, having read josh's post..

Aw yours was funny! Bring it back...
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#22 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2008-September-29, 14:42

han, on Sep 29 2008, 01:18 PM, said:

The problem with your plan is that partner does not always bid 3NT. For example, partner could bid 4D, even though your partner did not seem aware of this possibility. Now a 4S bid by you would not show 4-card support, and would not suggest that your diamonds are fake.

Maybe you could survive by jumping to 5S over 4D.

True, maybe partner will reply 6 (two + Q outside spades) and we can pass that.
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
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#23 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2008-September-29, 21:13

Well, I have to admit that I was sucked in. The 3 call did seem obvious to me. :(
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

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#24 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2008-September-30, 03:16

kenrexford, on Sep 30 2008, 04:13 AM, said:

Well, I have to admit that I was sucked in. The 3 call did seem obvious to me. B)

When the opponents asked lots of questions about the meaning of 3D, was it described as natural?

On the off-chance that LHO didn't lead a top diamond (which is clearly their best lead looking at your two hands), the contract made, and they called the director, the TD would note that

- you jump shifted into a 2-card suit
- your partner, with two aces, decent values and prime 4-card diamond support bid 3NT (not even a lurky 3H)

what do you think he would say?
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#25 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2008-September-30, 10:30

FrancesHinden, on Sep 30 2008, 04:16 AM, said:

kenrexford, on Sep 30 2008, 04:13 AM, said:

Well, I have to admit that I was sucked in.  The 3 call did seem obvious to me.  :(

When the opponents asked lots of questions about the meaning of 3D, was it described as natural?

On the off-chance that LHO didn't lead a top diamond (which is clearly their best lead looking at your two hands), the contract made, and they called the director, the TD would note that

- you jump shifted into a 2-card suit
- your partner, with two aces, decent values and prime 4-card diamond support bid 3NT (not even a lurky 3H)

what do you think he would say?

When the opponents asked a lot of questions (they did), I explained my understanding that diamonds could be a manufactured bid to establish a game force. As a result, the diamond King did hit the table.

Now, as to Part II -- how do you play this hand? The obvious part is that you will hook hearts, presumably, which will work, and will hope that spades split 3-2. However, you will plan for the event that spades do not split 3-2, which is a good idea, because spades do not in fact split 3-2, instead 4-1.

So, now that the obvious play issues are resolved, what line seems to maximize your chances?
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

-P.J. Painter.
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#26 User is offline   dburn 

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Posted 2008-September-30, 10:43

I win the opening lead and duck a spade. My plan is to revoke on the second round of hearts, which should lead to down at least four. With luck, this will mean that the person who bid 3 at his second turn will never play with me again.
When Senators have had their sport
And sealed the Law by vote,
It little matters what they thought -
We hang for what they wrote.
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#27 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2008-September-30, 11:30

dburn, on Sep 30 2008, 11:43 AM, said:

I win the opening lead and duck a spade. My plan is to revoke on the second round of hearts, which should lead to down at least four. With luck, this will mean that the person who bid 3 at his second turn will never play with me again.

That would be you, if you declare.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

-P.J. Painter.
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#28 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2008-October-01, 06:24

It seemed to me that an obvious, but extremely unlikely, line was to play RHO for the A-K in clubs (or a mistake) and four spades. Winning the diamond Ace, then hooking hearts, to lead a diamond up, winning the spade return in hand to cash out hearts before entry to dummy to cash the established diamond. However, that seems unlikely to succeed and in fact did fail.

In the post-mortem, I contemplated a duck of the diamond lead, which seems to give me more transportation options if diamonds are not continued, which might help with a diamond-club, diamond-spade, or double squeeze. Of course, the opponents could then just continue diamonds.

Any thoughts on this?
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

-P.J. Painter.
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#29 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2009-November-09, 20:24

sorry about this necro but this thread is just so awesome
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
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#30 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2009-November-09, 20:36

gwnn, on Nov 9 2009, 09:24 PM, said:

sorry about this necro but this thread is just so awesome

I usually hate when people do that. But this is probably my all time favorite necro...
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#31 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2009-November-09, 21:03

kenrexford, on Sep 29 2008, 09:17 PM, said:

I'm not sure what partner will do after 4, because in practice partner was bidding strangely and continued that practice.  My bid happened to be 3, for various reasons.  I need the diamond and spade Aces for slam to be good, and nothing more.  So, I decided that 4 was insufficient, even with 4 LTTC available.  Plus, a jump shift into diamonds had the additional advantage of perhaps dissuading a diamond lead, where any two missing Aces might work.

The end auction was:

1-1
3-3NT
4-4NT
6(two with the Queen and a void)-P

The final pass was really weird.  I felt that I needed to show the void because I would have held KQJx AKQxxx Kx x or something similar.  Walsh Fragments do not seem to be used after a heart opening.

So, to the play problem.  Partner had been bidding very strangely.  He bid 1 because he decided that 3NT was probably going to be the right final contract.  He bid 3NT for the same reason.  He converted 4 to 4NT because he felt that this was natural, which seems odd.  In any event, the diamond King hits the table as the lead, after many questions about whether 3 was a natural bid and much in the way of fussing over the lead by LHO.  You see:

Dealer: South
Vul: N/S
Scoring: MP
Axx
xx
AJxx
QJ10x
KQxxx
AKJxxx
xx
 
King lead.


How to play this mess to the bitter end is the next question.

My heavens, both North and South are total nutters and deserve each other. Why post a question about bidding when the "bidding" resembles nothing known to man?
I actually disagree with all the previous posters. I would have opened 1C, my best suit, and splintered in Hearts over the obvious 1S response
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#32 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2009-November-09, 21:54

It happened again...the Hog's irony and sarcasm express my feelings much better than I ever could.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#33 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2012-February-16, 03:22

My opponent opened 1 on AQJxxxx AKxxx x - yesterday and it made me think of this thread :)

(1=0+ nf, 1=4+, 1/=5+, 2=GF)
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
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#34 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2012-February-16, 03:40

I had forgotten all about this thread. I did't remember any of the posts and had a good laugh reading it. Could you please necro this again in about 3 years?
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#35 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2012-February-16, 03:43

the sarcasm examples in the urban dictionary are pretty good as well.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#36 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2012-February-16, 06:22

The only comment I remembered abotut this thread was dburn´s wich is odd. I think I just skipped whatever posts about bidding after reading OP.

Glad I had another oportunity now because I had to go to toilet to avoid peeing in my pants. thx Csaba.
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#37 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2014-November-22, 04:00

View Posthan, on 2012-February-16, 03:40, said:

I had forgotten all about this thread. I did't remember any of the posts and had a good laugh reading it. Could you please necro this again in about 3 years?

Sure, no problem.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
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#38 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2014-November-22, 04:07

where's that han-derbidder?
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