[soldatoJ]

How to find out the acutally distribution after open 1D with 45/54/55?
for example,

1♦-1♥
2♣-2♠(normal treatment of 4th suit FG)

1♦-1♠
2♣-2♥(normal treatment of 4th suit FG)

1♦-2♣(normal treatment of 2/1 suit, FG)
(or better don't play a Natural respond of this 2♣?)

or
(Assume with partner's suit short, may be 1NT if suitable)
say

x
AT9
KJxx(x)
AQxx(x)

1♦-1♠/♥
1N-2♣(normal treatment of new minor forcing)

1♣-1♥/♠
1N-2♦(normal treatment of new minor forcing)

how to distinguish from xx45/xx54/xx55/2245/2254 ?

Besides, I do not like very complicated method

[mishovnbg]

Hi soldatoJ!
The problem about distribution is last one you have in your sequences. You didn't show yet have you stopper in 4th suit, support in p suit and min/max of your hand, which in first 2 cases is in wide range of 11-17hcp. Only after same determination, which is important for decision about type and level of contract, you can use some relays for distribution. Method wich I can offer you is: first step show "unusual variant", in your case longer ♣, while other steps show distribution with ♦, by NoHiLo method. Example:

1♦-1♥
2♣-2♠
3♣{12-14, deny 3♥ or stopper ♠} - 3♦{relay for distribution}
?

3♥: 5+♣-4+♦
3♠: 5+♦-4+♣, "No" sing/void
3NT: 5+♦-4+♣, ♠ sing/void - "Hi"
4♣: 5+♦-4+♣, ♥ sing/void -"Lo"


1♦-1♥
2♣-2♠
3♣{12-14, deny 3♥ or stopper ♠} - 3♦{relay for distribution}
3♥: 5+♣-4+♦ -> 3♠{relay for distribution}
?

3NT: No singl/void
4♣: ♠ sing/void - "Hi"
4♦: ♥ sing/void - "Lo"

Misho

[soldatoJ]

what about 55?

can distinguish below 3NT?

[mishovnbg]

soldatoJ, on May 9 2004, 04:37 PM, said:

what about 55?

can distinguish below 3NT?

Try MOSCITO, only 500 pages .
Misho

[hrothgar]

Suppose the auction starts

1D - 1N - 2C, where 2C could be (5+ Diamonds and 4+ Clubs) or 5+ Clubs and 4+ Diamonds. [Note, playing MOSCITO, you face exactly this same dilemma following 1S - 1N 2C]

We use the following

2D = to play
2H = Relay, and then

2S = 4 Diamonds and 5+ Clubs
2N = 5+ Diamonds and 5+ Clubs
3C = 4 Clubs and 5+ Diamonds, high shortage
3D = 2=2=5=4 shape
3H = 3=1=5=4 shape
3S = 2=1=6=4 shape
3N = 3=0=6=4 shape

After

1D - 1N
2C - 2H
2N - 3C = Relay and then

3D = High Shortage
3H = 1=1=5=6 / 1=1=6=5 shape
3S = 2=1=5=5 shape
3N = 3=0=5=5 shape
4C = 2=0=5=6 shape
4D = 2=0=6=5 shape

You have the option to shift this all down by one step if you use 2D as a relay, however, you need to be able to play 2D.

[Free]

I think you made a small mistake Richard: 3♦ = high shortage, and all other bids are 1 step lower alrealy, ending at 4♦

[Free]

mishovnbg, on May 9 2004, 11:51 PM, said:

soldatoJ, on May 9 2004, 04:37 PM, said:

what about 55?

can distinguish below 3NT?

Try MOSCITO, only 500 pages .
Misho

Its only 150 pages Misho

[mishovnbg]

Free, on May 9 2004, 06:08 PM, said:

mishovnbg, on May 9 2004, 11:51 PM, said:

soldatoJ, on May 9 2004, 04:37 PM, said:

what about 55?

can distinguish below 3NT?

Try MOSCITO, only 500 pages .
Misho

Its only 150 pages Misho

Hi Frederick!
With this castrated version of MOSCITO you can't show some important distributions like 9=4=0=0 with opps all time silent
Misho

[Free]

mishovnbg, on May 10 2004, 01:31 AM, said:

Free, on May 9 2004, 06:08 PM, said:

mishovnbg, on May 9 2004, 11:51 PM, said:

soldatoJ, on May 9 2004, 04:37 PM, said:

what about 55?

can distinguish below 3NT?

Try MOSCITO, only 500 pages .
Misho

Its only 150 pages Misho

Hi Frederick!
With this castrated version of MOSCITO you can't show some important distributions like 9=4=0=0 with opps all time silent
Misho

do YOU really NEED TO??? Common Misho, you know better than this Btw, can you show any 9-4 shape in NTC?? Who needs it anyway, opps will intervene if you have 2 voids, that's for sure. And they don't come up a lot, so...

[mishovnbg]

Free, on May 9 2004, 06:41 PM, said:

mishovnbg, on May 10 2004, 01:31 AM, said:

Free, on May 9 2004, 06:08 PM, said:

mishovnbg, on May 9 2004, 11:51 PM, said:

soldatoJ, on May 9 2004, 04:37 PM, said:

what about 55?

can distinguish below 3NT?

Try MOSCITO, only 500 pages .
Misho

Its only 150 pages Misho

Hi Frederick!
With this castrated version of MOSCITO you can't show some important distributions like 9=4=0=0 with opps all time silent
Misho

do YOU really NEED TO??? Common Misho, you know better than this

The main reason why playing full realy system is nonsense...
Misho

[bergen]

I open 1C IF c5d4

[mishovnbg]

bergen, on May 10 2004, 07:53 AM, said:

I open 1C IF c5d4

Hi bergen, welcome to forum!
You can add card symbols ♣♦♥♠ by clicking them above the post.
In case you open 1♣ with 5♣-4♦ only:

1♦-1♥
2♣-2♠
3♣-3♦{R}
?
3♥: 5-4 "No"
3♠: 5-4 sing/void ♠ "Hi"
3NT: 5-4 sing/void ♥ "Lo"
4♣: 6-4 sing/void ♠ "Hi"
4♦: 6-4 sing/void ♥ "Lo"
4♥: 5-5 sing/void ♠ "Hi"
4♠: 5-5 sing/void ♥ "Lo"

Misho

[Fluffy]

I use to solve the problem with natural methods: Propose what you want and reject when you don´t ahve the lenght, not just ask, also give partner information:


1♦-1♠
2♣-2♥
2NT-3♣/♦ = an slam try for ♣/♦, after that partner will just reject with 4 cards and cue with 5.

Same methods when partner shows 3 in your suit (sadly sometimes you raise the minor at level 4, but still 4NT is a denial: to play)

If partner bids its lenght there is no much problem.

[soldatoJ]

So
1♦-1♠
2♣-2♥
2N-3♣
3N-4♦(3N deny 5-card ♣)
4♦ then fit the suit, which will be too high?

[Trpltrbl]

In SAYC and 2/1, you can't really find out what 5-4 pd has.
That's a little downfall, I have played many 4-3 ♦ partscores instead of 5-3 ♣ fits.
Very few were for a bad score, it's live.
Minorsuit partscores is something most experts don't really care for, especially in MP's.

Mike

[Fluffy]

I think the level 4 is apropiate for setting a minor fit looking for a slam,when the attemp is serious, when it isn´t you´ve got a problem :-(, again going back to 4NT can show no interest at all in playing in a minor nor any higher.

Doesn´t really matter, but I think with 3-3 in the minors you better try ♦ first