[jdonn]

TimG, on Mar 18 2009, 11:17 AM, said:

jdonn, on Mar 17 2009, 12:59 PM, said:

Your partner might as well even bid blackwood over 3♦, his hand is that good and I don't see what cuebidding gets you.

It would be nice if partner were the one doing the keycarding since we have little beyond the keycards and four trumps -- he's likely the one looking at the long-card tricks.

You are right based on common principles, but I just don't think it matters here. If we are off one keycard, we go to slam. If we are off none, we bid 5NT and partner can count his tricks then just as well.

[hanp]

I agree with mikeh that old fashioned Jacoby isn't a great method but that really wasn't the problem here. Responder had a big hand and 4S was very wrong.

[ArtK78]

jdonn, on Mar 18 2009, 11:29 AM, said:

TimG, on Mar 18 2009, 11:17 AM, said:

jdonn, on Mar 17 2009, 12:59 PM, said:

Your partner might as well even bid blackwood over 3♦, his hand is that good and I don't see what cuebidding gets you.

It would be nice if partner were the one doing the keycarding since we have little beyond the keycards and four trumps -- he's likely the one looking at the long-card tricks.

You are right based on common principles, but I just don't think it matters here. If we are off one keycard, we go to slam. If we are off none, we bid 5NT and partner can count his tricks then just as well.

But then we get into that area of partnership bidding relating to RKCB - does the 5NT bid guarantee all of the key cards?

[hanp]

That area of partnership bidding where the answer is yes?

[ArtK78]

hanp, on Mar 18 2009, 02:55 PM, said:

That area of partnership bidding where the answer is yes?

It certainly is in my partnerships, but there have been many discussions in these Fora on this issue.

Maybe it is just that the 5NT bid promises all the key cards, and the queen ask does not. But the treatment seems to vary from partnership to partnership.

In any event, that is not the issue on this thread, so let us not hijack it any further.

[fromageGB]

Back to the main issue of the thread, it you are playing a simple card with no agreement other than the initial 2NT, then I think 4S should be read as "your shortage has downgraded my hand to less than an opening bid". I certainly agree that any regular partnership should discuss continuations and come up with its own preferred methods.

[jdonn]

ArtK78, on Mar 18 2009, 02:37 PM, said:

jdonn, on Mar 18 2009, 11:29 AM, said:

TimG, on Mar 18 2009, 11:17 AM, said:

jdonn, on Mar 17 2009, 12:59 PM, said:

Your partner might as well even bid blackwood over 3♦, his hand is that good and I don't see what cuebidding gets you.

It would be nice if partner were the one doing the keycarding since we have little beyond the keycards and four trumps -- he's likely the one looking at the long-card tricks.

You are right based on common principles, but I just don't think it matters here. If we are off one keycard, we go to slam. If we are off none, we bid 5NT and partner can count his tricks then just as well.

But then we get into that area of partnership bidding relating to RKCB - does the 5NT bid guarantee all of the key cards?

Sometimes it's hard to tell if you are being serious or facetious. Not funny enough to be facetious, but no one could possibly make the statement and be serious.

[hanp]

ArtK78, on Mar 18 2009, 03:07 PM, said:

Maybe it is just that the 5NT bid promises all the key cards, and the queen ask does not.

Right, a queen ask below 5M does not.

[karlson]

I don't understand responder keycarding and bidding 7. What's wrong with opener's round suits being switched? (or if he bids 5n, how is opener to know).

It seems best to start a cuebidding auction and let opener keycard.