[aguahombre]

Scoring: IMP

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Board One of 6 --Swiss match.

1H (2d) 2H (3d)
X * (p) 3H (p)
P (p)

The double was a random game try within failure to open 15-17 1NT (which we open with all 5332).

Pls evaluate the decisions of North and South-- if possible, without resulting by looking at both North and South.

[P_Marlowe]

The auction was ok, sometimes you miss game.

X instead of 2H is the only alternative, and it would not have helped,
and it is a bid, which I would only consider for 1-2 sec, it can workout
brilliant, but, how do can I say to defend myself, if partner bids 4H
(afterI showed my support delayed with 3H) and we went for ???? ?
Nothing.

Game try is clear, and so is the decline, ..., depending on your options
2H can be wide ranging, and you are more min, than max.
If you play mixed raises, say you already denied a 7-8 point raise,
because you would have been able to show such a raise via 2NT or
whatever, than you should accept, otherwise not - it is at best a guess.
But if you played mixed raises, than one could debate, if opener should
invite.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Jlall]

Big believer in just bidding 4H with the north hand. If for no other reason the opps might judge incorrectly to save in 5D, or they might be cold for 4D if the max you can make is 3H and they might bid it (and they would almost definitely bid 5D over 4H if that's the case). Sure it may seem like poker to you but again, I'm a big believer in it.

edit: But fwiw if there were no competitive considerations I prefer the game try so it's a reasonable evaluation of the hand.

[jjbrr]

Missing this game white at imps isn't the end of the world. My gut feeling was that I would accept a game try with the S hand. The stiff ♦ is a pretty nice feature of my hand. I think it compensates for my lack of strength/trump length (partner usually has 6 trumps on this auction anyway).

[aguahombre]

all three replies, so far, have covered most of the issues involved. The table result is of interest, but I am still interested in who agrees with whom. Don't take this as a hint of some strange twist, but Pard and I have agreed with our actions, and also with everything that has been said, thus far. This is not an attempt to resolve a dispute, just a damned interesting IMPs situation.

[jjbrr]

It's a matter of style. if you know partner will bid game himself with the north hand, it's silly to accept a game try with the south hand; game just won't be good often enough. if partner invites with hands like the north hand, then i think south should accept, as i said. if both hands are close to bidding game, then one side of the partnership has to be willing to pull the trigger.

[gnasher]

I've stopped playing game-try doubles, because I'd always just bid game with an invitational hand (and, especially at matchpoints, I like to have a penalty double available). If I were playing game-try doubles, I'd accept with the South hand, of course.

This post has been edited by gnasher: 2009-October-12, 16:33

[dake50]

To a game-try double, South has D-single for a D-ruff, likely C-K for a trick, plus a 5-suit headed by Q?
And this is too little?! Could the 2H over 2D be S-Qx, H-xxx, D-xxx, C-Qxxx? or similar such garbage?

[effervesce]

To be fair, this is one game I don't mind too much missing. It could just as easily be 4♥-1, and the south hand is a bit borderline. South may have already taken into account that north would probably know that south is short in diamonds (from the bidding) and therefore should not take into that much account the singleton diamond.

[pooltuna]

aguahombre, on Oct 12 2009, 04:10 PM, said:

Scoring: IMP

---

Board One of 6 --Swiss match.

1H (2d) 2H (3d)
X * (p) 3H (p)
P (p)

The double was a random game try within failure to open 15-17 1NT (which we open with all 5332).

Pls evaluate the decisions of North and South-- if possible, without resulting by looking at both North and South.

hard for many to look at the south hand as a constructive raise (it is IMO) which are the only hands that should be accepting.

[Jlall]

effervesce, on Oct 12 2009, 11:16 PM, said:

To be fair, this is one game I don't mind too much missing. It could just as easily be 4♥-1, and the south hand is a bit borderline. South may have already taken into account that north would probably know that south is short in diamonds (from the bidding) and therefore should not take into that much account the singleton diamond.

Yes. Even if hearts are 2-2 there is a chance the defense goes diamond to the ace, ace of spades spade to the king and a trump promo on the next spade. Or if they're nasty and it's stiff Q of hearts and 3-3 spades they fake the trump promo and you ruff jack and lose to T8x of hearts lol.

Against that, sometimes they will fail to shift to spades when it's right and you will make even with Qxx of hearts somewhere because clubs are 3-3. Also, you might figure out how to guess hearts some non 0 % of the time.

[andy_h]

Sometimes I don't like to use the info that South should take into account that North knows that South is short in diamonds based on the bidding and this is one of them. North could range from having 1-4 diamonds on this auction so if he has 2-3 he has no idea how many South has.

[aguahombre]

Yep, Pard's doubleton did not suggest to her that I had shortness, yet I (South) thought my singleton was probably known (good thought, Effervesce, we were just wrong this time).

Yep, Justin nails the defense against 4H. Overcaller was 2-1-6-4, with Ace and one spade, and the stiff Heart queen. Against 3H, the opponents were lazy and allowed 170.

Nope, for North to just bid 4H does not seem like poker to me. It just doesn't work this time. However, in poker, some say it is better to win or lose a small pot than to lose a big one --and our teammates decided not to risk trying to beat 4H.

5D doubled down one, plus 2 IMPS.