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Scoring: XIMP
Pass - (Pass) - 1♣ - (2♦)
X - (2♥) - X - (Pass)
2♠ - (Pass) - ?
1♣ was Natural or 15-19 bal.
The first double is not discussed beyond "negative".
Second double is not discussed beyond "not penalty".
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To overbid or not to overbid?
#1
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Posted 2009-October-16, 04:27
Pass - (Pass) - 1♣ - (2♦)
X - (2♥) - X - (Pass)
2♠ - (Pass) - ?
1♣ was Natural or 15-19 bal.
The first double is not discussed beyond "negative".
Second double is not discussed beyond "not penalty".
_____________________________________
Do not underestimate the power of the dark side. Or the ninth trumph.
Best Regards Ole Berg
_____________________________________
We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:
- If the original poster didn't bother to state his system, that means that he thinks it's obvious what he's playing. The only people who think this are 2/1 players.
Gnasher
Do not underestimate the power of the dark side. Or the ninth trumph.
Best Regards Ole Berg
_____________________________________
We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:
- If the original poster didn't bother to state his system, that means that he thinks it's obvious what he's playing. The only people who think this are 2/1 players.
Gnasher
#2
- Andy Bowles
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Posted 2009-October-16, 04:41
Pass. I've done at least as much as my hand is worth.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
#3
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Posted 2009-October-16, 04:44
Partner has about 8-9 points (not much more since he didn't bid more than 2♠, and not much less (he did make a 2nd level negative double). Probably with 4 small hearts since he did not pass the double for penalty.
With 16 points in my hand, there is just enough points for game, but from the bidding the cards are not sitting well, so forcing a game is not right. I'd bid 3♣ invitation to game and I'm confident partner will put me in 3NT with the right cards if we can make it, although I won't be surprised if it goes down.
With 16 points in my hand, there is just enough points for game, but from the bidding the cards are not sitting well, so forcing a game is not right. I'd bid 3♣ invitation to game and I'm confident partner will put me in 3NT with the right cards if we can make it, although I won't be surprised if it goes down.
#4
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Posted 2009-October-16, 05:25
2N, I'll tell partner I have a balanced 15-16 without 4 spades and with stops in the reds and let him do something sensible.
#5
- enigmatic
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Posted 2009-October-16, 06:41
I think my double of 2♥ showed exactly 3 spades. The stiff A♥ is beyond price. On the other hand, 2♦ on my left is disturbing and could easily reduce my hand to a (good) 12 count.
On the whole I guess I settle for an invite. 3♣ locating vaules is my choice. Partner will accept holding 5 spades and the A♣ or Q♣ which seems about right.
On the whole I guess I settle for an invite. 3♣ locating vaules is my choice. Partner will accept holding 5 spades and the A♣ or Q♣ which seems about right.
Life is long and beautiful, if bad things happen, good things will follow.
-gwnn
-gwnn
#6
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Posted 2009-October-16, 06:49
Easy pass, partner only doubled 2♦ and it wasn't exactly 2♠ which would force us to 2NT or higher.
And as a side note, if partner's dbl tends to be negative (1M/both majors/ w/e) then why are we not playing our double as penalties?
And as a side note, if partner's dbl tends to be negative (1M/both majors/ w/e) then why are we not playing our double as penalties?
- Andy -
We are all connected to each other biologically, to the Earth chemically, and to the rest of the universe atomically.
We're in the universe, and the universe is in us.
We are all connected to each other biologically, to the Earth chemically, and to the rest of the universe atomically.
We're in the universe, and the universe is in us.
#7
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Posted 2009-October-16, 07:35
OleBerg, on Oct 16 2009, 05:27 AM, said:
Scoring: XIMP
Pass - (Pass) - 1♣ - (2♦)
X - (2♥) - X - (Pass)
2♠ - (Pass) - ?
1♣ was Natural or 15-19 bal.
The first double is not discussed beyond "negative".
Second double is not discussed beyond "not penalty".
I would try 3♠ which should be clear as 3 card support.
"Tell me of your home world, Usul"
the Freman, Chani from the move "Dune"
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."
George Bernard Shaw
the Freman, Chani from the move "Dune"
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."
George Bernard Shaw
#8
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Posted 2009-October-16, 08:10
andy_h, on Oct 16 2009, 07:49 AM, said:
Easy pass, partner only doubled 2♦ and it wasn't exactly 2♠ which would force us to 2NT or higher.
And as a side note, if partner's dbl tends to be negative (1M/both majors/ w/e) then why are we not playing our double as penalties?
And as a side note, if partner's dbl tends to be negative (1M/both majors/ w/e) then why are we not playing our double as penalties?
yep. Even though the negative double might just have one major, the suggestion of both makes opener's double of the 2H bid penalty(you need to rediscuss)--it did not suggest 3-card spade support. Responder showed the one suited spade hand by removing, and did not have enough strength to bid spades the first time, rather than make the negative double.
The auction is over.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
#9
- enigmatic
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Posted 2009-October-16, 08:17
Well the OP stated that the second double is not penalty. So for better or worse, that's the agreement, and given that I think it shows 3 spades. I would not assume that without the stated condition.
Life is long and beautiful, if bad things happen, good things will follow.
-gwnn
-gwnn
#10
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Posted 2009-October-16, 09:11
Edit saw an explanation wrong.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
#11
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Posted 2009-October-17, 07:27
Looks like an easy pass. Your double showed something extra, and I think that's all you've got. Partner could easily have just 6 or 7 points with short diamonds and only 4S.
#12
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Posted 2009-October-17, 07:53
WesleyC, on Oct 17 2009, 08:27 AM, said:
Looks like an easy pass. Your double showed something extra, and I think that's all you've got. Partner could easily have just 6 or 7 points with short diamonds and only 4S.
And what would he do with 5♠ (or even 6♠ with a bad suit)?
If he is short in ♦ he is likely to have more ♠. Otherwise assuming that this hand would have bid 2♠ with 4 cards I would expect partner to show ♣ support with only 4♠ and shortage in ♦.
Give him the queen of ♣ and the rest of his few points in ♠, KQxxx or Kxxxxx.
If I knew partner to be is short in ♦, I would certainly raise ♠.
Rainer Herrmann
#13
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Posted 2009-October-17, 10:28
If I had either of the hands you suggest as responder (all working values, nothing wasted in hearts and extra spade length) opposite my partner's value showing double I'd find something more than a 2S bid.
For me 2S would be a normal negative double hand - usually with values in both majors - Typical would be a hand like QJxx AJxx xx xxx.
I think maybe the difference in opinion comes from that fact that you don't think the double shows much extra, just 3S. Personally I'd pass with 11-14 and only 3S. That's just the way I prefer to play it though - I'm sure other methods are reasonable too.
For me 2S would be a normal negative double hand - usually with values in both majors - Typical would be a hand like QJxx AJxx xx xxx.
I think maybe the difference in opinion comes from that fact that you don't think the double shows much extra, just 3S. Personally I'd pass with 11-14 and only 3S. That's just the way I prefer to play it though - I'm sure other methods are reasonable too.
#14
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Posted 2009-October-18, 05:53
2♥ as a passed hand its normally bid with diamond tolerance or more. Partner is not likelly to hold many diamonds.
The one thing that is clear is that you cannot bid is 3♣ that would show a strong 1 suiter maybe burying the spade fit.
I don't like 2NT, of partner couldn't bid it himself it is clear that we are better playing in spades.
IMO this is close between pass and 3♠. I think I would bet for the overbid.
The one thing that is clear is that you cannot bid is 3♣ that would show a strong 1 suiter maybe burying the spade fit.
I don't like 2NT, of partner couldn't bid it himself it is clear that we are better playing in spades.
IMO this is close between pass and 3♠. I think I would bet for the overbid.
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