[karlson]

♠-- ♥AQJ9xxx ♦AKQxx ♣x

matchpoints, r/r, rho deals

p-1♥-3♠-p
4♠-?

[gwnn]

5♥ for me. I don't think it's odds on to play partner for one of the two missing cards and even then we have diamonds to take care of.

[gnasher]

4NT, showing a 7-5. With 6-5 or 5-5 I'd just bid my second suit. I agree with gwnn about not bidding slam.

[MFA]

4NT then 6♦.
I do think it is odds on to bid slam. On this bidding there is no particular strong reason to place each of the vital cards ♣A and ♥K in the opponents' hands rather that with partner. LHO is preempting and RHO is a passed hand.
Also we are not dead when partner has neither of the two. Singleton heart and diamond support will often be enough. Or we could take a heart finesse if partner has ♦J. And the opponents might misjudge and sacrifice in 6♠. Many ways to win.

[pooltuna]

karlson, on Sep 5 2010, 05:21 AM, said:

♠-- ♥AQJ9xxx ♦AKQxx ♣x

matchpoints, r/r, rho deals

p-1♥-3♠-p
4♠-?

6♦

[kenrexford]

Sounds like a good place for good-bad 4NT!

[aguahombre]

gnasher, on Sep 5 2010, 05:19 AM, said:

4NT, showing a 7-5.  With 6-5 or 5-5 I'd just bid my second suit.  I agree with gwnn about not bidding slam.

Yes. This distinction between 7-5 and the others, when you are running out of room is important, IMO. Regarding Ken's "good/bad", I think any attempts to further be in the auction at the 5/6 level should be "good" ---but maybe Ken does, too; and I just fell for the joke.

Edit: Partner will be the one to move out of the 5-level, not me.

This post has been edited by aguahombre: 2010-September-05, 09:56

[kfay]

I push to slam.

I ain't yella.

[aguahombre]

kfay, on Sep 5 2010, 09:36 AM, said:

I push to slam. 

I ain't yella.

via what plan? 5NT, then convert clubs to diamonds? 4NT, then convert 5C to 6D? Immediate 6H?

You aint yella, but u might be blue. Or it might work, but the OP wants a plan. If I were pushing to slam, 4NT then 6D (ala MFA) would be the choice if pard bid 5C. This leaves a little room for partner to make a bid which I won't understand

But, am still in the "yella" camp with 4NT and subside.

This post has been edited by aguahombre: 2010-September-05, 10:04

[karlson]

I agree that 4n should be 2-card disparity, but is it really obvious it's 7-5? Could we have a really pure 6-4 for this? It would have to be something like Ax AKJxxx KQJx x. Maybe even that hand just doubles.

Anyway, I wasn't sure that I wanted to play in diamonds at all on this hand given the mp scoring (though of course if I thought for sure I could show 7-5 I would have), so I bid 4n and over 5♣ (which was doubled on my right) bid 5♥. I think this shows a single-suited heart slam try. Thoughts? Do you think partner should kick it in with ♥K and out?

[gwnn]

No he shouldn't.

[jdonn]

MFA, on Sep 5 2010, 06:29 AM, said:

4NT then 6♦.
I do think it is odds on to bid slam. On this bidding there is no particular strong reason to place each of the vital cards ♣A and ♥K in the opponents' hands rather that with partner. LHO is preempting and RHO is a passed hand.
Also we are not dead when partner has neither of the two. Singleton heart and diamond support will often be enough. Or we could take a heart finesse if partner has ♦J. And the opponents might misjudge and sacrifice in 6♠. Many ways to win.

This gives my thoughts at least as well as I could. One more thought, it's possible for partner to have the ace of spades and they lead that suit as well.

[aguahombre]

karlson, on Sep 5 2010, 03:40 PM, said:

I agree that 4n should be 2-card disparity, but is it really obvious it's 7-5? Could we have a really pure 6-4 for this? It would have to be something like Ax AKJxxx KQJx x. Maybe even that hand just doubles.

Anyway, I wasn't sure that I wanted to play in diamonds at all on this hand given the mp scoring (though of course if I thought for sure I could show 7-5 I would have), so I bid 4n and over 5♣ (which was doubled on my right) bid 5♥. I think this shows a single-suited heart slam try. Thoughts? Do you think partner should kick it in with ♥K and out?

I guess the logic is that with a two-card disparity, you would bid 5D over partner's 5C with 6-4, but not with 7-5. An interesting concept.

[655321]

I like the 4NT followed by 6♦ path, although I might just bid a crude 6♦ at the table.

Aren't the simple odds (forgetting about spade length, passed hands, etc) that partner has neither card 2/3 * 2/3 - i.e. he is a favorite to have one of the cards, then as mentioned the chances of a singleton heart with diamond length, etc, improve the odds even further?

A while ago I had a run where I had several similar 2 suited freaks in a short period of time, bashed 6 on every one, and went down on every one... still, I will try again.

[gwnn]

I don't think those crude odds are telling the whole story.

LHO+RHO have a little more HCP than 2*CHO on average I think.

[jdonn]

gwnn, on Sep 5 2010, 06:59 PM, said:

I don't think those crude odds are telling the whole story.

LHO+RHO have a little more HCP than 2*CHO on average I think.

Also more spades, giving him more hearts + clubs.

[inquiry]

karlson, on Sep 5 2010, 05:21 AM, said:

♠-- ♥AQJ9xxx ♦AKQxx ♣x

matchpoints, r/r, rho deals

p-1♥-3♠-p
4♠-?

Its a misiry hand. I can't hellp myself.... your planning too late....

Open a misiry 2NT. This is either a ♣ preempt, or A strong two suiter with hearts (known suit) and without ♣

Lets assume they continue to disrupt your clareful auction as before....

2NT- (3♠) - Pass - (4♠
?

Now,
Pass is club preempt
Dbl (since they raised) is strong red two suiter, 3 or 4 losers.
4NT is two losers, needing ♣King (if partner has AK of clubs he can bid grand)
5♣ is red two suiter needing ♣ACE but not king
5♦ is red two suiter, no need for any cover card in clulbs.

So I bid 5♣ and wait for partner to place the contract correctly. HE can ask on the way if spade control is working, but if he has to ask, we don't have good grand slam.


Yes, yes, no use to anyone but me. Sigh.

[the hog]

inquiry, on Sep 6 2010, 12:06 PM, said:

karlson, on Sep 5 2010, 05:21 AM, said:

♠-- ♥AQJ9xxx ♦AKQxx ♣x

matchpoints, r/r, rho deals

p-1♥-3♠-p
4♠-?

Its a misiry hand. I can't hellp myself.... your planning too late....

Open a misiry 2NT. This is either a ♣ preempt, or A strong two suiter with hearts (known suit) and without ♣

Lets assume they continue to disrupt your clareful auction as before....

2NT- (3♠) - Pass - (4♠
?

Now,
Pass is club preempt
Dbl (since they raised) is strong red two suiter, 3 or 4 losers.
4NT is two losers, needing ♣King (if partner has AK of clubs he can bid grand)
5♣ is red two suiter needing ♣ACE but not king
5♦ is red two suiter, no need for any cover card in clulbs.

So I bid 5♣ and wait for partner to place the contract correctly. HE can ask on the way if spade control is working, but if he has to ask, we don't have good grand slam.


Yes, yes, no use to anyone but me. Sigh.

Not at all true, Ben. My ex pd still plays this and really likes it. Played in the Vic Open teams last year and the seniors this year in the National Championships.

[inquiry]

The_Hog, on Sep 6 2010, 12:21 AM, said:

Not at all true, Ben. My ex pd still plays this and really likes it. Played in the Vic Open teams last year and the seniors this year in the National Championships.

Great. You know a complaint I hear is that these strong two suiters "never come up". Well, that is obviously not true, however, by removing them from you other auctions, they come up a lot more in the sense that it makes your other auctions better defined.

You should ask him if he has modified the meaning of any of the follow up auctions for me.

[the hog]

inquiry, on Sep 6 2010, 11:11 PM, said:

The_Hog, on Sep 6 2010, 12:21 AM, said:

Not at all true, Ben. My ex pd still plays this and really likes it. Played in the Vic Open teams last year and the seniors this year in the National Championships.

Great. You know a complaint I hear is that these strong two suiters "never come up". Well, that is obviously not true, however, by removing them from you other auctions, they come up a lot more in the sense that it makes your other auctions better defined.

You should ask him if he has modified the meaning of any of the follow up auctions for me.

Will do.