[zasanya]

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Q.1 What is your opening bid?
Q.2 If you decide to open 2 clubs and in your system 2 heart response shows 0-3 then is opener's rebid of 2 spades forcing?
Q.3 If you play 2 diamond as 0-7 then is 2 spades forcing?
Q.4 If 2 spades is forcing What does responder rebid holding 4-4-3-2 pattern doubleton spades and 0-3 hcp in either case?

[Flameous]

I'm all for showing shape but this is too strong to not open 2C.

2C is game forcing for all other sequences than 2C - 2D(or 2H neg) - 2NT. This isn't one of those sequences, so it's GF.

The last one depends a bit on agreements. Most likely it's 2NT bid, get your shape across. However after 2C - 2D - 2S you might have some cheaper minor as second negative to show actually 0-3.

[kenberg]

2C. As flameous says, it's just too strong to not do so.


I have played various responses to 2C, but I have never used the 2H bid as the 0-3 bid. I know many do. Whatever responses I play, I treat a 2C as follows: Of course 2C-2whatever is weak-2NT can be passed. If, as I generally play, 2C-2D-2S-3C is artificial and now shows the 0-3 hand, I play that 3S can now be passed, but 3D cannot.

So: 2C-2D-2S-3C-3D, now what? I suppose that if I have four diamonds to go with my two spades, I raise diamonds. Partner should have a pretty good view of my hand: No values to speak of, diamond support, he can decide. If I have only three diamonds and two spades, I guess 3S. Partner may expect/hope I have three pieces, but certainly I have done nothing to suggest I have any interest in pursuing anything.

Since I have not played the 2H as the 0-3 bid, perhaps I should not comment but to my mind the agreement should still be that we are forced to the three level (except for 2C-2H-2NT). Presumably 2C-2H-2S-2NT-3D-3S would be a clear description. I wouldn't think the 2N would be taken seriously except for shape. But maybe 3C should be used in lieu of 2NT to show the flattish hand, keeping the option for the big hand to declare NT. No doubt the 2H double neg people have worked this out, but I don't know what they arrived at.

[mike777]

zasanya, on 2010-November-29, 03:14, said:

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Q.1 What is your opening bid?
Q.2 If you decide to open 2 clubs and in your system 2 heart response shows 0-3 then is opener's rebid of 2 spades forcing?
Q.3 If you play 2 diamond as 0-7 then is 2 spades forcing?
Q.4 If 2 spades is forcing What does responder rebid holding 4-4-3-2 pattern doubleton spades and 0-3 hcp in either case?

2c as others said a bit too strong to open 1 level.
I play 2h as denying a or k but unlimited tiny points so if:
2c=2h
2s is not forcing pard can pass but should strain to bid with most 2h neg hands.
so with 4 card support and close to zero points I bid 3s..not forcing. With this hand opener will bid 4s.
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with zero points and 2 spades I pass.
2c=2h=2s=2nt would not be forcing but show something more than zero.


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If 2s is forcing then you need someway to show zero pt hand.

[Fluffy]

I don't find this too strong for 2♣ specially with a void.

what responses you have to 2♣ doesn't change the meaning of 2♣ if 2♣ is GF then 2♠ is foricng, if 2♣ is not, then it is not.

[mikeh]

Fluffy, on 2010-November-29, 09:41, said:

I don't find this too strong for 2♣ specially with a void.

what responses you have to 2♣ doesn't change the meaning of 2♣ if 2♣ is GF then 2♠ is foricng, if 2♣ is not, then it is not.

I agree with most of this, but not the last part.

One can play that 2♣ is not gf, and still can and imo should play that 2♠ is a one round force.

In fact, a moment's reflection will show why: change the hand by making it AKJxx AKQ AKJxx and this is everyone's gf, yet what is one to bid over a negative 2♦?

One can hardly jump in spades, since we may belong in diamonds, or even hearts....we need the room to show the second suit.

Even with just the hand we have, playing in 2♠ opposite xx Jxxx Qxxx xxxx is not going to be a lot of fun on a club lead, at least not when compared to playing in diamonds.

I would suggest to the OP that he rethink his response structure....it sounds as if he is playing step responses based on hcp, and that is a terrible method (altho a lot of advancing players find it attractive because the initial concept is so simple): the problem is that 2♣ auctions are more about where one has one's strength and what kind of strength one has, and not merely how many 4321 points one has. One Ace is often worth more, for game purposes, opposite a 2♣ opener than are 4 jacks.

And one simply doesn't need the higher steps: if I hold 10 hcp and partner opens 2♣, the last thing I want to do is to preempt our slam auction by responding, for example, 2N.

[Phil]

2♣.

DO you really play point showing responses to 2♣?

2♠ over 2♥ is forcing. To keep things simple, agree that you are in a force through 3 of your major although I think its reasonable to play opener's 2nd suit is NF and with Mike's hand jump to 4♦ over 2N or 3♣.

[zasanya]

This was the responder's hand .

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Thank you guys.

[apjames]

Fluffy, on 2010-November-29, 09:41, said:

I don't find this too strong for 2♣ specially with a void.

what responses you have to 2♣ doesn't change the meaning of 2♣ if 2♣ is GF then 2♠ is foricng, if 2♣ is not, then it is not.

Bingo