[mr1303]

---

Again, the 3S bid was somewhat controversial, but do we bid 4S here, or double, or pass (or something else?)

[Phil]

3♠ isn't controversial, its awful. It is a distant 4th choice behind a mixed, limit, or simple raise.

Anyway, I pass. Partner overcalled on a QT-suit, heard my bid, and isn't interested in playing 4♠ so he probably has some defense.

[mtvesuvius]

If we were going to disregard partner's pass now, why not bid 4♠ before? This is an easy pass now IMO. No comments on the 3♠ bid lol

[mike777]

Phil, on 2011-January-31, 16:15, said:

3♠ isn't controversial, its awful. It is a distant 4th choice behind a mixed, limit, or simple raise.

Anyway, I pass. Partner overcalled on a QT-suit, heard my bid, and isn't interested in playing 4♠ so he probably has some defense.

ditto

[nigel_k]

I don't know how we are supposed to answer when the question is whether to respect or overrule partner's decision after we have misdescribed our own hand quite badly. I also voted for pass but am starting to have second thoughts and maybe prefer 4♠.

[han]

If the bridge world used this problem in master solver's club, I think we'd see the first unanimous abstain.

[Fluffy]

I Passed to be consistent with my previous decision, even when I don't agreee with it. We made our guess, they made theirs, lets hope we made the right one

[Echognome]

Would have made a mixed raise the round before (I think some of our values are clearly wasted to be making a limit raise). Would have made life much easier now. As it is, I'm having to assume we do not play mixed raises and my guess is to pass.

[Free]

Since no explanations were given, I believe we should treat this horrible 3♠ bid as showing what we have. In that case, pass is very obvious. Abstaining is ofcourse much better...

[nige1]

mr1303, on 2011-January-31, 15:43, said:

Again, the 3S bid was somewhat controversial, but do we bid 4S here, or double, or pass (or something else?)

---

IMO

• After 1♦ 1♠ _X: 4♠ = 10, 2N (good raise) = 9, 3♠ = 5.
• Now: _P = 10, 4♠ = 9. The argument for passing is that it is consistent with your earlier decision: you may have jostled opponents into a Moysian fit.

[whereagles]

I must say I'm somewhat amazed by the general dislike for 3♠. I think it's a pretty obvious bid What exactly is your problem with it?

By the way, for your information, it was made by a former national team member.

[Free]

whereagles, on 2011-February-03, 05:38, said:

I must say I'm somewhat amazed by the general dislike for 3♠. I think it's a pretty obvious bid What exactly is your problem with it?

By the way, for your information, it was made by a former national team member.

I can only speak for myself, but 3♠ shows a hand much weaker. This hand can be treated as an INV or a mixed raise. In case of the INV we bid 2NT (or 2♦ if you prefer 2NT for something else), in case of mixed raise we bid 3♦ (jump cuebid below 3 of our suit).

[whereagles]

weaker?? Come on, you have all of your hcp in the main suit. That screams for a preemptive bid.

A mixed raise is something more like

AJxx
xx
xx
Kxxxx

and an invitational raise

AKJx
xx
xx
Kxxxx

[Phil]

whereagles, on 2011-February-03, 08:01, said:

weaker?? Come on, you have all of your hcp in the main suit. That screams for a preemptive bid.

A mixed raise is something more like

AJxx
xx
xx
Kxxxx

and an invitational raise

AKJx
xx
xx
Kxxxx

Had a thread about this last year and a mixed raise simply shows a hand in the range between a limit and a preemptive raise. RS says otherwise, but there are many things in that book that people don't play.

Otherwise how can partner ever properly distinguish between AKJx xx xx J9xxx and Kxxx x xxxx xxxx?

[whereagles]

Well, he's not supposed to. Both hands have just about the same playing strength and ODR, so they're worth the same bid, don't you think so?

[han]

No, AKJx is not similar to Kxxx.

[manudude03]

I'd trust partner to not overcall on total crap, if his suit is QTxxx (if we're lucky!) then I'd be expecting opening values (or at least 10+). Meanwhile, if we have Kxxx, that generally points to partner having a decent suit so a weaker hand is possible.

In the poll, I bid 4♠ (noting that it was what I would have bid the round before).

[mtvesuvius]

whereagles, on 2011-February-03, 05:38, said:

I must say I'm somewhat amazed by the general dislike for 3♠. I think it's a pretty obvious bid What exactly is your problem with it?

By the way, for your information, it was made by a former national team member.

Emphasis added

Anyway I hate 3♠, AKJx is not Kxxx, two very different holdings should not be treated equally.

[whereagles]

han, on 2011-February-03, 09:30, said:

No, AKJx is not similar to Kxxx.

That wasn't the point, and you know it

[gnasher]

han, on 2011-February-03, 09:30, said:

No, AKJx is not similar to Kxxx.

mtvesuvius, on 2011-February-03, 14:28, said:

AKJx is not Kxxx, two very different holdings should not be treated equally.

Did Whereagles edit his original post after you said this? I can't see anything in what he said that suggests he thinks these two holdings are equivalent.

This post has been edited by gnasher: 2011-February-04, 17:06