[rduran1216]

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[MrAce]

rduran1216, on 2011-June-12, 02:45, said:

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Bidding 3♣ with a promissing hand, not suitable for DBL probably due to ♠ (not just balancing with 6 card suit, extras)

[helene_t]

If 1♦ doesn't promise four then this should shows 4♦6♣. Otherwise I suppose it is a very strong 2♣ overcall with a heart stopper.

In principle I don't like having different defense against two almost-identical systems, here 4442 and 4433 styles of 5-card majors. But the thing is that 2NT is like bidding diamonds so what it means depends on whether we can belong in diamonds or not on this auction.

[Hanoi5]

I'd say is a takeout for the minors.

[Bbradley62]

Solid ♣ and ♥ stopper.

[whereagles]

2NT needs 23-24 hcp to make... I don't think this 2NT can be natural, even taking into account pard should have a few hcps.

I'd say 6♣+4♦.

[mtvesuvius]

6♣ and 4♦

[gwnn]

2NT in these auctions could mean either a "good 3♣ overcall" or a 4♦6♣ hand. To me, neither interpretation seems to have any sizeable frequency, but I guess 4♦6♣ is going to come up more often. Note that you should have good diamonds for this bid.

[JLOGIC]

What is the purpose of good 3C bid? You could have doubled and bid clubs, you didn't, your partner could have bid but didn't. This one is obviously diamonds and clubs. I also don't understand why this shows 4 diamonds and 6 clubs, what are you supposed to do with 5 diamonds and 6 clubs?

[gwnn]

Sure, I agree that a good 3♣ is quite silly. I guess I was understating the frequency/utility of both minors.

[whereagles]

JLOGIC, on 2011-June-12, 18:47, said:

I also don't understand why this shows 4 diamonds and 6 clubs, what are you supposed to do with 5 diamonds and 6 clubs?

huh... 6-4 or 6-5.

[bluecalm]

Quote

2NT needs 23-24 hcp to make... I don't think this 2NT can be natural, even taking into account pard should have a few hcps.

oh c'mon. You could have xx Ax Axx AKQxxx which is 8running tricks and partner will picture it's perfectly;
That being said I think ♣ + ♦ is better in this auction.

As we are at it, what about:

1♦ 1♠ pass 2♠
2NT = ?

(assuming 18-20 bal is not possible)

[MrAce]

I agree with you Helene, answer to the OP question may vary depending on what their 1♦ shows.

On the other hand there are other ways to show ♦ and keep the 2NT where it belongs. It depends on the style of 2♣ overcall though, does it deny 4 card ♠ ? If so using 2♠ bid later can be used to show ♦. If 2♣ bid doesnt deny 4 cards ♠ then 2♠ later natural and DBL followed by 3♣ can shows diamonds.

I dont even think DBL in pass out seat by overcaller shows neccesarily a strong hand. But this depends on how agressive our pd's overcalls are. If he is someone who can pass 1♦ with KQxxx xxx Qxxx x, then my dbl means nothing about strength.

whereagles, on 2011-June-12, 12:31, said:

2NT needs 23-24 hcp to make... I don't think this 2NT can be natural, even taking into account pard should have a few hcps.
I'd say 6♣+4♦.

Ok, but in another topic some people here agreed that opening and responding can be made 11 vs 2 hcp. (which i agree) Also for making 3 NT u need 26 hcps, but you overcall 3 NT over a 3 level preempt with 18 hcp and stopper(s). this is much safer here, since pd know where to run if things get ugly.

[JLOGIC]

bluecalm, on 2011-June-12, 19:58, said:

oh c'mon. You could have xx Ax Axx AKQxxx which is 8running tricks and partner will picture it's perfectly;
That being said I think ♣ + ♦ is better in this auction.

As we are at it, what about:

1♦ 1♠ pass 2♠
2NT = ?

(assuming 18-20 bal is not possible)

Why would you overcall 2C with that hand? Seems perfect to double and bid clubs (or NT, depending on auction).