[aguahombre]

jillybean, on 2011-September-18, 19:54, said:

Yeech I guess I am very old school, I made the 2N bid on xx,Axx,Q82,AJT53. Playing modern I have to pass, or open this garbage.
My r/l partners play 2N natural too.

Even if you play 2NT as natural, why would you want to bid it on that hand? After they take the first five diamond tricks, you need to take the rest; and if you do, maybe there was a better spot to play for your eleven tricks.

If pard would bid 2NT with that, my hedge of only rebidding 3C would look pretty good.

[jillybean]

I'm not proud of the 2N bid but I really did not know what would be better.

[nigel_k]

jillybean, on 2011-September-18, 19:54, said:

I made the 2N bid on xx,Axx,Q82,AJT53.

I would definitely open that and I don't normally open with 11. It is at least a one point upgrade. I prefer double instead of 2NT.

[jillybean]

nigel_k, on 2011-September-18, 21:52, said:

I would definitely open that and I don't normally open with 11. It is at least a one point upgrade. I prefer double instead of 2NT.

Why upgrade and if you open 1♣, what do you bid over partners 1♥?

[mike777]

jillybean, on 2011-September-18, 10:19, said:

---

There is more to come.

I guess a matter of style easy pass for me but some good players say easy 1s.

[nigel_k]

jillybean, on 2011-September-18, 21:56, said:

Why upgrade and if you open 1♣, what do you bid over partners 1♥?

AJ10xx is an excellent holding because jacks and tens aren't worth much by themselves but here they are part of a combination that hugely increases their trick taking potential. Here are some examples from Kaplan/Rubens:

Jx ATx Q82 A5432 10.9 (moved J and 10)
xx Axxx Q82 AJT5 11.85 (no 5 card suit)
Tx Jxx J82 AKQxx 11.20 (good 5 card suit but unsupported jacks and tens)
xx Axx Q82 AJT53 12.05 (actual hand)

Having a five card suit is good but this shows that most of the boost in value comes from the AJT combination lifting the contribution of the minor honours.

Over partner's 1♥ I would bid 1NT. 2♥ would be ok as well but for me it's too much of an overbid with a balanced minimum and only three card support.

[han]

jillybean, on 2011-September-18, 19:54, said:

Yeech I guess I am very old school, I made the 2N bid on xx,Axx,Q82,AJT53. Playing modern I have to pass, or open this garbage.
My r/l partners play 2N natural too.

Garbage?

[mich-b]

jillybean, on 2011-September-18, 19:54, said:

Yeech I guess I am very old school, I made the 2N bid on xx,Axx,Q82,AJT53. Playing modern I have to pass, or open this garbage.
My r/l partners play 2N natural too.

A "card showing" double is also a possibility (even though , of course , I would prefer a 4th ♥ for that)

[jillybean]

jillybean, on 2011-September-18, 19:54, said:

Yeech I guess I am very old school, I made the 2N bid on xx,Axx,Q82,AJT53. Playing modern I have to pass, or open this garbage.
My r/l partners play 2N natural too.

han, on 2011-September-19, 02:28, said:

Garbage?

My openings have become signifcantly more disciplined. I sent this hand to my regular partner, do you open this, does vulnerability matter? his reply
No and no, but its close. Rule of 20 is a pretty good guideline, problem with opening this type of hand is that partner becomes less likely to invite if 11 point openers with little shape are possible.

Nigel, thanks for the K&R analysis. I will send a link to my partner.

[han]

Disciplined is not the word I would use when I see very pretty honors being described as garbage. If this hand is not good enough to open for you, that's a matter of style, but if you don't see that this is a very good 11-count then there is something wrong.

[jdeegan]

A fine fix you have got me in now Ollie. I am going to put fingers in both ears and pass. No double, no trouble.

[ggwhiz]

I guess I'm old school too.

The bidding is fine with me and I now bid 3♣, fold my cards and put them in my pocket.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

nonsense deleted

This post has been edited by TWO4BRIDGE: 2011-September-22, 04:37

[Cyberyeti]

I'd bid 2♦ specifically spades and clubs (you bid 3♦ with the majors by our methods) bad or good. Would never overcall 1♠, second choice would be 2♠ NV, but pass here.

And your 11 is a nice hand, so nice I'd have opened it a 12-14 1N and played in the wrong black suit

[Fluffy]

Over 2♦ you cannot pass jilly, you have to bid something cos this can easilly be your hand.

Double is the way to act. Opening 1♣ and rebidding 1NT is not a bad idea either, but its a matter of style.

I'm shocked that you even asked what would you rebid if you opened, balanced minimum hands rebid 1NT, whatever you had in mind that didn't make 1NT rebid obvious is something you rather get rid off quickly.

[jdeegan]

jillybean, on 2011-September-18, 10:19, said:

---

There is more to come.

For Christ's sake, you jumped into the auction with two kings, Where is my skateboard?

[the hog]

Absolutely bid 1S in this. I really dislike the 2NT bid.

[JLOGIC]

Umm, your partner should bid 3C over 2N, he has 5 of those!

Seems like you did fine if your parnter just bids 3C. Leaving my partner in 2N just seems like I hate my partner. I know we have a club fit, and I know we have 17 HCP so why would I leave partner in 2N?

Faulting jilly for bidding 2N with an 11 count and a diamond stop is a bit hard on her, that's what 2N shows. She is vulnerable and has a great hand and might have a vulnerable game. She can hardly have more as a passed hand.

[JLOGIC]

Also not opening with a balanced 11 is fine. I would open, but you can easily play a style where you don't open. I am sure that Bobby Levin and Steve Weinstein would not open with that hand, and they do pretty well.

By far the biggest problem on this hand was the pass of 2N.

[BunnyGo]

JLOGIC, on 2011-September-24, 06:34, said:

By far the biggest problem on this hand was the pass of 2N.

For the record, I did bid 3C.