[straube]

So for our artificial 1D, we're using a 1H response as GF balanced or hearts. It would still be lovely to relay
after opponent doubles (suggesting spades) or overcalls 1S. The double particularly leaves systems on in place, but the spade overcall gives us a cue bid. I'm not forgetting support doubles, but we could stay in system and not use them.

1D P 1H (1S)

P-4 spades, systems on
dbl-NT shape without a stopper
1N-bal with a stopper

1D P 1H (dbl)

redouble-4 spades or 3-1-4-5, systems on
1S-balanced without 3 hearts, systems on
1N-natural withoug 3 hearts
etc-systems on

[straube]

I think these auctions are very common and as the 1D opening is so nebulous, it would be nice to use the extra room to show something about opener's shape. Support doubles are nice, but would opener double with 4315 as well as 4360 or 1345 or 3325? It seems like we want to leave in place our methods for subsequently relaying partner's shape.


1D P 1H (1S)

P-4 spades (systems on)
.....partner's 1N or double is system off
dbl-balanced shape, no stopper
1N-balanced shape, stopper

1D P 1H (dbl)

P-3 hearts, balanced, not 4 spades
.....1S-asks stopper
.....1N-shows stopper
redouble-was planning to rebid 1S, could have 3 hearts, could be balanced
.....1S-to play, possibly 3-fit
.....1N-to play, possibly assuming opener has a stopper
1S-balanced shape, 2 hearts, 2-3 spades, no spade stopper
1N-balanced shape, stopper

[Zelandakh]

Have you considered some kind of transfer scheme? Something like

1D - 1H - (1S)
==============
P = balanced without stop
X = clubs
1N = balanced (or 4 spades) with stop
2C = diamonds
2D = diamonds and 3 hearts
2H = diamonds and 4 hearts

off the top of my head as a basis, although it seems wrong to devote both pass and 1NT to simlar hand types. It may also be that non-transfers or 2-under transfers are better, I haven't really thought it through yet, but I think it has to be right to differentiate between club and diamond hands here before 6th seat gets in with a raise. If I could not do this and still cater to relays then I would prefer to turn relays off. Ideally we can do both...

[straube]

I did think about that.

Our considerations are that 1D can be a wide variety of hands and 1H may not necessarily show hearts. If I respond 1H with xxx Ax KQxx AKxx I'm not going to be enthusiastic about hearing that partner has exactly three hearts. What about the rest of his hand? Do I now have to cue bid 2S to establish a force? Partner could have x KQx Axxx Qxxxx for all I know.

At such levels I want to be able to continue in system as much as possible. A 1S overcall actually gives us a step. A double gives us 2 or more.

I think I like what I proposed because after

1D P 1H (1S)

if opener passes showing a spade rebid, responder is obligated to do nothing. He can, however, double 1S off (rare). He can compete with 1N. Or he can make a system bid including 2D which is a GF bid that relays the hand.

If opener doubles or bids 1N, we have systems on as if partner rebid 1N except now we have the information about a stopper. I thought about splitting these two bids between balanced with 3 hearts and balanced without 3 hearts, but then opener has a problem with xxx xx AKxx AQxx. He has to rebid 1N if dbl shows 3 hearts balanced. Or if dbl were to show balanced without 3 hearts, then he has to rebid 1N with xx xxx AKxx AQxx. So showing the stopper or no stopper seems better and is always of some use.

I also like that this can right-side NT.

Now I have systems on. 1D P 1H (1S) 2C shows 5D/4C and not some 4-1-3-5 that wants to compete, for example.

In a sense, I'm using transfers after 1D P 1H dbl

Now I really can split hands between balanced with three hearts and balanced without three hearts with a stopper and balanced without three hearts without a stopper.

Maybe it should go...

P-balanced with 2 hearts, not 4 spades
.....P-5 hearts
.....1S-asks partner to bid 1N
rdbl-4 spades
.....1S-possibly 3-fit
1S-3 hearts, balanced, no stop
1N-3 hearts, balanced, stop

This would let us stop in a 5-2 fit at the 1-level. I'm not wild about 4-3 fits, but if 1S or 1N showed 3 hearts, I'd be happy to play a 5-3 fit at the 2-level.

Which is better?

[straube]

I think it has to be

1D P 1H (1S)

P-bal, no stopper
dbl-4 spades, unbalanced
1N-bal, stopper
etc-systems on

If one were to double with a balanced hand and no stopper, then responder frequently has no bid. If one doubles with spades, responder can run to 1N. Losing the support double hurts when the auction continues (2S) and partner has five hearts. OTOH, knowing that partner is balanced helps when responder has 4H/5m.

[straube]

1D P 1H (1S)

P-bal, no stopper
dbl-4 spades, unbalanced
.....systems on so opener can pattern out
1N-bal, stopper
etc-systemic

1D P 1H (dbl)

P-2 hearts, balanced, not 4 spades
.....1S-?
rdbl-3 hearts, balanced, not 4 spades
.....1S-?
1S-4 spades, any
.....systems on
1N-2 hearts, stopper, balanced

I could use help with this, especially after the double.

[wclass___]

1♦-P-1♥-1♠ - ???
I would concentrate on partner having ♥'s.

1♥ can, probably, be quite weak so i think that 1N should be standard: extra values with stopper. Anything else i can imagine is just unlogical or asking for trouble.

pass=nothing special
x = some fit.

[Zelandakh]

1D - P - 1H - (X)
=================
P = nothing to say (balanced without stop)
XX = 4 spades
1S = clubs
1N = nat with stop
2C = diamonds
2D = diamonds and 3 hearts
2H = diamonds and 4 hearts

seems to work just the same as after a 1S overcall. In other words, whatever you decide to play after the 1S overcall, just play the same after X but use XX to show spades and 1S to show whatever X of the 1S overcall shows.