[Zelandakh]

RunemPard, on 2012-February-20, 16:15, said:

I find the best way to play when just starting is something like...

Make sure the beginners learn something as bad as possible so that they appreciate how "good" SAYC is when they switch to it?

I have taught many beginners to play using basic English Acol and it was very natural and very easy for them. From Opener's side you just have to define balanced, give them a points ladder and tell them a suit order of preference for 4432 shapes (eg: H > S > D). Then with unbalanced hands you define hands as weak, strong or very strong and define rebids accordingly along with rules for 5-5 (6-6) and 4441 hands. On Responders side my method was to give an order of priority for different actions and then a point range for different levels. So Number 1 is "Raise partner's major" with 2M = 6-9, 3M = 10-12, etc.

Simple stuff and at least it represent s a proper system rather than the mish-mash of 4-4-4-4 15-17 without guidance on which suits of equals to open. Indeed, if you intend this as a more natural lead-in to American methods I would suggest Swiss Acol (5443) is probably a better base. Incidentally the first beginners book I read taught 5 card major Acol with a 16-18 NT and the first 4 card major system I discovered was Culbertson. I did not find out what "normal" Acol was until many years later when I started to play with real people. Luckily I had managed to reverse-engineer most of it from the above 2 systems so it did not come as such a big shock (although the gadgets my first partner inflicted on me certainly did!)

[RunemPard]

If a true beginner wants to jump into a more complex system, go ahead. I just posted what I started with. There is not really anything wrong with what I gave for a beginner and here in Sweden that is pretty much what any beginner starts out with. Limit raise response, simple 12-14 jump to 4 with nothing special in hand to discuss. Sure 5c majors are better to me as well, but that is for the player to decide as a beginner. Some may prefer playing 4 in all suits starting out.

[Trinidad]

RunemPard, on 2012-February-21, 04:15, said:

If a true beginner wants to jump into a more complex system, go ahead. I just posted what I started with. There is not really anything wrong with what I gave for a beginner and here in Sweden that is pretty much what any beginner starts out with. Limit raise response, simple 12-14 jump to 4 with nothing special in hand to discuss. Sure 5c majors are better to me as well, but that is for the player to decide as a beginner. Some may prefer playing 4 in all suits starting out.

I used to live in Sweden. The "Modern Standard" system in Sweden has a little more structure than what you showed.

This is also exactly what I meant with my earlier post. First start to understand the natural bidding. If you open four card majors, majors first, then diamonds (as in the Swedish Modern Standard system), then you will figure out at some point that if your partner opened with 1♣, he will be exactly 3334 or he will have 5 clubs. IMO, this shouldn't be taught actively; it should be discovered by playing a natural system for a while. Understanding this is much more important than learning Jacoby transfers.

Rik