[Cthulhu D]

This was partner's problem at an otherwise excellent club session where we won the handicap pairs. At match-points, Green against Red, you deal yourself:

S: AJ6
H: A752
D: 4
C: AKQJ7

You are playing 2/1 GF with a short club and transfer responses with an inexperienced and aggressive partner. However, if you do something weird you'll typically be on the same wavelength. At the table a short 1C was chosen to open leading to the following:

1C! - 1H! - Systematically a transfer to spades, 4+, weak NT with 2 or 3 card support accepts.

Your sensible responses are:

3C - Strong rebid, 17+ GF unless partner is sub minimum. Partner's response

Spoiler

3H - Natural

2H - Natural Reverse. Partner's response:

Spoiler

Partner bids 3H.

2NT - Shows 6+ clubs and 3 card support or 17-19 balanced with 4 card support. Partner's response

Spoiler

3H: natural and GF

How do you continue from here?

Partner's actual hand is

Spoiler

S: QT973
H: KJ93
D: AQ
C: 92

Contracts that make are

Spoiler

6C, 5H, 6S make, and 6NT only if played by partner, otherwise it's off 1. We played 6H down 1 and the field was split between 6S and 6H.

[Codo]

I am very happy to play such a nice system. I would bid 2 NT and see no other choice.
If I bid my hearts, I may find a 4/4 heart fit, but why should I look for one if I have a 5/3 spade fit? Usually you prefer the 4/4 fit, because you have two discards on the long suit. (This is a little oversimplified). What do you want to discard on the long spades? The only small cards you would like to discard are hearts.
So this time, I would go for the spade slam and it is no close descission.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

2H - I show 54, and 16/17+

Unless I miscounted, I only have 5 clubs, I would assume,
that 3C showes a 6 card suit as well.

I will end up in the same contract as you.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Cyberyeti]

Codo, on 2012-March-16, 02:26, said:

I am very happy to play such a nice system. I would bid 2 NT and see no other choice.
If I bid my hearts, I may find a 4/4 heart fit, but why should I look for one if I have a 5/3 spade fit? Usually you prefer the 4/4 fit, because you have two discards on the long suit. (This is a little oversimplified). What do you want to discard on the long spades? The only small cards you would like to discard are hearts.
So this time, I would go for the spade slam and it is no close descission.

This seems to be a bit resultist, give partner something like Kxxxx, QJ10x, Axx, x and 6♥ is a lot better than 6♠ (not to mention xxxxx, KQJx, AKx, x). It's really dependent on the high cards that partner has in the suits that govern which suit will play better, not the 5-3/4-4 fit.

[Codo]

Cyberyeti, on 2012-March-16, 03:00, said:

This seems to be a bit resultist, give partner something like Kxxxx, QJ10x, Axx, x and 6♥ is a lot better than 6♠ (not to mention xxxxx, KQJx, AKx, x). It's really dependent on the high cards that partner has in the suits that govern which suit will play better, not the 5-3/4-4 fit.

1. Do you have a tool avaiable for the B/I Forum to find out about the suit quality in partners majors before you decide which slam to play?
2. The actual hand has honours in both majors which makes slam in spades better then in hearts. The same is obviously true if partner holds more honours in his longer suit then in his shorter.

So, your examples would be bad hands for spade slams but I bet that if slam makes just in one suit, it will be 3:1 for spades.

[Cthulhu D]

Codo, on 2012-March-16, 02:26, said:

I am very happy to play such a nice system. I would bid 2 NT and see no other choice.
If I bid my hearts, I may find a 4/4 heart fit, but why should I look for one if I have a 5/3 spade fit? Usually you prefer the 4/4 fit, because you have two discards on the long suit. (This is a little oversimplified). What do you want to discard on the long spades? The only small cards you would like to discard are hearts.
So this time, I would go for the spade slam and it is no close descission.

You don't know if you have a 5/3 spade fit at your second bid, partner's 1H! only promises 4. 2NT may bury a 4/4 heart fit, but with hindsight I guess it's no big problem bidding 2NT though because if you do have a 4/4 heart fit partner also must have 5 spades.

I had not considered this useful feature of the 2NT bid.

Quote

1. Do you have a tool avaiable for the B/I Forum to find out about the suit quality in partners majors before you decide which slam to play?

To be fair, I wasn't confident that short club with transfer response antics are B/I material though both partner and I are beginners at best.

[ahydra]

I went with 2H. Partner bids 3H, I bid 3S (could be a cue but there's also an argument for playing that as patterning). Partner bids 4D next?

Then I'm definitely going to slam, so 4NT rkc for hearts. 5H 2 no Q, 6H.

Meh - I take it from the results the spade and heart finesses are both offside. Ah well, next board.

ahydra

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Does 6H fail because of the opening lead ( contract wrong-sided ) ?

The normal Reverse bidding would go:
1C - 1S
2H - 3H ( GF )
3S ( cue )
... and Opener plays the hand in a ♥ slam.

[Cyberyeti]

Codo, on 2012-March-16, 03:16, said:

1. Do you have a tool avaiable for the B/I Forum to find out about the suit quality in partners majors before you decide which slam to play?
2. The actual hand has honours in both majors which makes slam in spades better then in hearts. The same is obviously true if partner holds more honours in his longer suit then in his shorter.

So, your examples would be bad hands for spade slams but I bet that if slam makes just in one suit, it will be 3:1 for spades.

I'm also not clear how partner bids if 5-5 where clearly you want to be in hearts.

I quite like an auction which goes 1♣-1♥!-2♥-3♥-3♠-4♦-4N(KC ♥)-5♥(2 without)-

And now when I find out that partner doesn't have the Q♥ I bid 6♠ as 6♥ is unlikely to be better. If partner has xxxxx, Kxxx, AKQ, x I apologise.

[Cthulhu D]

Everyone in the field who played 6H went off. Only 6NT has right siding issues - the
K of diamonds is over the AQ tight, and the diamonds are breaking badly.

Th full hand:

---

[the hog]

I bid 2H. This looks totally obvious to me.

[han]

the hog, on 2012-March-16, 23:00, said:

I bid 2H. This looks totally obvious to me.

Ditto.

[FrancesHinden]

the hog, on 2012-March-16, 23:00, said:

I bid 2H. This looks totally obvious to me.

As we've changed the name of the forum I'm going to explain why 2H also looks obvious to me.
You have a hand worth a game force. If you reverse into hearts and then support spades you have told partner that you have a 3=4=1=5 very strong hand. If you use any of your other gadgets, then, unless you play even more system later, you have described less about your hand. The advantage of having the other gadgets available is that you don't need to 'invent' a reverse on some 3=3=1=6 or similar, so your heart suit is known to be genuine.

I agree with the arguments that you are very unlikely to want to play in 6H rather than 6S as you shouldn't need any diamond ruffs in your hand, but that doesn't mean it is wrong to describe your hand and let partner make a decision. Perhaps partner has Qxxxx KQJx Axx x when 7H is playable and 6S can go off on a bad trump break.

[Cthulhu D]

FrancesHinden, on 2012-March-17, 05:16, said:

I agree with the arguments that you are very unlikely to want to play in 6H rather than 6S as you shouldn't need any diamond ruffs in your hand, but that doesn't mean it is wrong to describe your hand and let partner make a decision. Perhaps partner has Qxxxx KQJx Axx x when 7H is playable and 6S can go off on a bad trump break.

Cheers, this is the biggest insight to me from this discussion - the critical decision is actually converting 6H to 6S, not the first rebid.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Codo, on 2012-March-16, 02:26, said:

I am very happy to play such a nice system. I would bid 2 NT and see no other choice.
If I bid my hearts, I may find a 4/4 heart fit, but why should I look for one if I have a 5/3 spade fit? Usually you prefer the 4/4 fit, because you have two discards on the long suit. (This is a little oversimplified). What do you want to discard on the long spades? The only small cards you would like to discard are hearts.
So this time, I would go for the spade slam and it is no close descission.

I think Codo has this one right.
After the 2H Reverse and 3H Support rebid, Opener knows about Responder's 5 cards ♠ .... ergo 4 cards in the minors.
When Opener goes RKC for ♥ and discovers the ♥Q missing, the ♠ suit looks more attractive as trumps because of ♥ discards on that stellar ♣ suit . ( ♦ losers are not in the "discard" picture because of Opener's shortness there ) .
And Opener can make the final bid of 6S ... since it is the top dog suit. ( Of course he couldn't do that if ♠ were the 4 - 4 fit and ♥ were the unsupported 5 - 3 fit ) .