[dburn]

paulg, on 2012-May-29, 11:39, said:

When anyone in the UK talks about 'Europe', it means those people across the Channel. It rarely includes the UK.

A possibly apocryphal headline in a 19th-century English newspaper read "Fog In Channel - Europe Isolated". And quite right too.

[Vampyr]

dburn, on 2012-May-30, 18:52, said:

A possibly apocryphal headline in a 19th-century English newspaper read "Fog In Channel - Europe Isolated". And quite right too.

Yes, I was thinking of that one too. There is another meaning of "Europe" in the UK, especially when it is pronounced with a look and tone of disgust -- the European Union.

[barmar]

I know they were reluctant, but didn't the UK join the EU?

[Statto]

barmar, on 2012-May-30, 19:38, said:

I know they were reluctant, but didn't the UK join the EU?

We did, and I am still proud that we did. Some may disagree and have little pride in that fact, but they would be misguided IMAO.

The more common term that Brits use for the 'rest of Europe' is 'the continent', with standard adjective etc derivatives such as 'continental Europe'. At least those derivatives have survived since 2008. But yeah, there seems to be a feeling that we are part of Europe, but only partially, perhaps in a part-score like 2♠.

[Quantumcat]

I'm quite glad there are women's events - when I am too old for youth, but still not quite good enough to be confident of getting into my state's Open ANC team, I can play in my state's Womens ANC team. In fact I feel quite sorry for average male youth players - when they get too old, they have to wait about 40 years until they are old enough for Seniors. That's a long time to wait to get to play in ANCs again! Although I have heard that Womens players are all gossipy and horrible (no actual experience on my part), and on Vugraph the commentators spend more time laughing about the stupid things the Womens players do rather than actual serious commentating, I would much rather play with/against them than not get to play at all!

Any woman who doesn't like women's events can always play in the equivalent Open events. I know a few people who always play in Open and wouldn't touch a women's event with a ten-foot pole. So really there should not be heated discussion either way - it has nothing to do with men, and any woman who doesn't like women's events doesn't have to play in them, and any women who enjoys higher-level events but isn't good enough for Open, so plays regularly in Women's, won't be complaining...

[jillybean]

Quantumcat, on 2012-June-04, 00:46, said:

I'm quite glad there are women's events - when I am too old for youth, but still not quite good enough to be confident of getting into my state's Open ANC team, I can play in my state's Womens ANC team.

Have you thought that if you spend your time in womens events that perhaps you may never get good enough to compete in the open events?

[paulg]

jillybean, on 2012-June-04, 08:08, said:

Have you thought that if you spend your time in womens events that perhaps you may never get good enough to compete in the open events?

I think that this should be a concern if you ONLY played in women's events. However as part of a balanced diet it can be very useful. Certainly most of the women I know who are trying to break into the open game (and occasionally succeeding) have found that the experience gained in playing at the Europeans and Olympiads on Women's teams is extremely valuable. They are used to these long events, playing as a team of six, and know the ups and downs that can happen over ten days, which is something NPCs are concerned about with first-time pairs.

[FrancesHinden]

paulg, on 2012-June-04, 08:17, said:

I think that this should be a concern if you ONLY played in women's events. However as part of a balanced diet it can be very useful. Certainly most of the women I know who are trying to break into the open game (and occasionally succeeding) have found that the experience gained in playing at the Europeans and Olympiads on Women's teams is extremely valuable. They are used to these long events, playing as a team of six, and know the ups and downs that can happen over ten days, which is something NPCs are concerned about with first-time pairs.

Unless you are getting to the late stages of e.g. the Venice Cup I think playing women's bridge is very bad for your game. Admittedly I don't play womens' bridge at all, so perhaps I shouldn't comment, but I know a number of people (of both genders) who agree with me. There are so few decent women's teams around that in most events it becomes an exercise in extracting maximum imps from poor players rather than learning how to play against good players.

[paulg]

paulg, on 2012-June-04, 08:17, said:

I think that this should be a concern if you ONLY played in women's events. However as part of a balanced diet it can be very useful. Certainly most of the women I know who are trying to break into the open game (and occasionally succeeding) have found that the experience gained in playing at the Europeans and Olympiads on Women's teams is extremely valuable. They are used to these long events, playing as a team of six, and know the ups and downs that can happen over ten days, which is something NPCs are concerned about with first-time pairs.

FrancesHinden, on 2012-June-04, 15:04, said:

Unless you are getting to the late stages of e.g. the Venice Cup I think playing women's bridge is very bad for your game. Admittedly I don't play womens' bridge at all, so perhaps I shouldn't comment, but I know a number of people (of both genders) who agree with me. There are so few decent women's teams around that in most events it becomes an exercise in extracting maximum imps from poor players rather than learning how to play against good players.

I actually agree with you but it is a view that seems to be contrary to many of the pros who say that playing a lot of hands, almost whatever the standard, is good. On the other hand, my friends are not exactly dominating the women's scene at the European level so it should be a good stepping stone. And they are playing the Spingold rather than the Wagar when we go to the Nationals.

[Cthulhu D]

jillybean, on 2012-June-04, 08:08, said:

Have you thought that if you spend your time in womens events that perhaps you may never get good enough to compete in the open events?

I think there is two ways to attack this - play in the open events and only when the selection trials are up enter the last train women's qualifiers if you don't make the open (or are very unlikely to make the open), or play in women's events all the time. I see nothing wrong with plan A. It's not purely optimal in that you're not always playing in the strongest event available, but you'll generally be playing in strong events. Plan B sucks though.

There is also a difference between Australian and US tournaments here. Most Australian pair games seem to have one big field, then award the 'ladies' 'youth' 'mixed' etc prize to eligible pair with the highest result in the field - but in the swiss they can expect to come up against people competiting for the mens, open, mixed etc freely. So if your regular partner happens to be a women you can go for the ladies prize will still playing against the youth, novice, open etcetcetc.

So for example the national swiss pairs (there was a seperate restricted competition) with an open, men, women, mixed, novice and youth prize for the highest eligible pair in the overall rankings, but people competing for the mixed pairs would play male, female and mixed pairs. In this enviroment you don't have the problem you mention - if you and QuantumCat had of entered, you still could have come up against Justin Lall and the NZ youth he was playing with, or the eventual overall winners.

Teams events may be further stratified though.

[FrancesHinden]

paulg, on 2012-June-04, 15:27, said:

I actually agree with you but it is a view that seems to be contrary to many of the pros who say that playing a lot of hands, almost whatever the standard, is good. On the other hand, my friends are not exactly dominating the women's scene at the European level so it should be a good stepping stone. And they are playing the Spingold rather than the Wagar when we go to the Nationals.

Certainly if you are inexperienced, then one of the things you need to do is get experience playing long events and/or playing a lot of boards a day for a number of days. But you can do that in open events too: if you want to travel, you can go and play in a US nationals every day for 2(?) weeks.

And of course it's not as simple as saying you get 'better bridge' or 'more experience' playing in open events. If you play in the Spingold and are knocked out in the first round, you are worse off (in some sense) than playing in the Wagar and getting to a later round. The 'best' event to play in to improve is one where you will not be totally out-classed but will play against strong opponents.