[wyman]

N: Ax / AKx / KQJxx / Jxx

S:
xx / Q10x / Axx / AKQxx
Qx / QJ10 / A10x / AQ10xx
QJ / Qxx / 10x / AKQ10xx

S dealer at teams

How do we differentiate after

1N - 3C* [puppet]
3D* - 4D* [no 5cM // 5332 slammish]

[kenberg]

Beats me!

You want me/us to comment on how to continue in a system that I am guessing we don't much know? With that N hand, any system that can keep the pair out of bad slam due to a bad fit has my respect! Maybe Justin will tell us. I imagine that my auction would be something along the lines of 1NT-6NT

[wyman]

kenberg, on 2012-December-18, 11:05, said:

Beats me!

You want me/us to comment on how to continue in a system that I am guessing we don't much know? With that N hand, any system that can keep the pair out of bad slam due to a bad fit has my respect! Maybe Justin will tell us. I imagine that my auction would be something along the lines of 1NT-6NT

I'm more interested in whether or not anyone can bid 7m on the first hand after this start.

[kenberg]

Well, I'll also be really impressed with any system that can do that. I can find various arrangements of fifteen point notrump openers that would bring in thirteen tricks. Otoh, even 6NT is not on ice with hands 2 and 3. Although I would like to be there. Nor would 6♦ be totally certain. On hand 3, 6♣ is close to certain since with N playing it a spade lead can't hurt.

Anyway, I look forward to hearing any answers. When I said my auction would be something like 1NT-6NT the only variant I was thinking of begins 1NT-4♣. If we have all of the aces, I suppose that bidding 5NT over the Gerber response invites 7NT. Maybe it does anyway. The chances of something good coming in go up sharply, i think, if we put a 17 count in the South hand.


But I realize that is not your question. I am just gabbing, since I actually have no idea how to follow up on the auction and agreements you begin with.

Sorry about that. Maybe someone else will take a crack at it.

Best wishes
Ken

[JLOGIC]

On hand one I imagine 5c cue, 5h 6c would get the job done.

[JLOGIC]

Or maybe not, how would jx qjt Axxx Akxx bid? What do 5s and 5n and 6c all mean over 5h. What would 5h or 5s or 5n mean over 5c, presumably they all promise both major suit aces since you're trying for 7. And 5s must mean something over 5h when you have denied a spade control.

There will probably be some guesswork involved without detailed agreements there. I am not very good at these kind of auctions and almost always use keycard rather than attempt to cuebid my way to grand, my natural reaction was that 6c would imply very good clubs for grand but maybe that is not true.

[wyman]

At the table, I cued 5C with (2) but maybe that is wrong. But you are right, I would bid 6D over anything north bids over 5C with (2), and probably 6C over whatever he bid holding (1) -- but probably I should know what he means if he bids 5H/S/N ...and what the difference is btwn 5S/5N/6C if he cues 5H over 5C

[PhilKing]

FWIW I think that 5 or 6♣ should show clubs over 4♦.

Should 5♣ be forcing? There is a case for it, but it doesn't really fit in with my general agreements, so I would bid it on hand c) only - encouraging.

On b) I would sign off in 4NT.

On a) my choice is a bit of a shocker - 4♥ cue, which in a weird way rates to get the job done. Partner knows I am cueing a queen high suit, so I don't have the spade king but I am suitable. If he thinks it through, he can place me with something like the hand I hold.

[nige1]

wyman, on 2012-December-18, 09:15, said:

How do we differentiate after

YOU deal at teams you and OXO (the ox opposite) play 3♣ as 5-card Stayman

It may not help much here but IMO, 4♣/4♦ should be natural/slammish and
*optional* (consultative) RKC. e.g. over 4♦...
4♥ = 3/1 keys
4♠ = 4/0 keys
4N = misfit or slam unsuitable.
5♣ = 2 keys
5♦ = 2 + trump Q.

YOU: ♠ xx ♥ QTx ♦ Axx ♣ AKQxx: 1N 3♦ 5♣
OXO: ♠ Ax ♥ AKx ♦ KQJxx ♣ Jxx: 3♣ 4♦
Don't know how to bid the grand (available in 3 denominations).

YOU: ♠ Qx ♥ QJT ♦ ATx ♣ AQTxx: 1N 3♦ 5♣
OXO: ♠ Ax ♥ AKx ♦ KQJxx ♣ Jxx: 3♣ 4♦
Small slam with the odds.

YOU: ♠ QJ ♥ Qxx ♦ Tx ♣ AKQTxx: 1N 3♦ 4N
OXO: ♠ Ax ♥ AKx ♦ KQJxx ♣ Jxx: 3♣ 4♦
4N may be too high. 6♣ a great contract (because OXO is declarer) but hard to reach

YOU: ♠ KQJT ♥ QJT ♦ Axx ♣ QT9: 1N 3♦ 4N
OXO: ♠ Ax ♥ AKx ♦ KQJxx ♣ Jxx: 3♣ 4♦
Arrgh but still hard to stay out of a slam.

[PhilKing]

nige1, on 2012-December-18, 21:23, said:

YOU deal at teams you and OXO (the ox opposite) play 3♣ as 5-card Stayman

It may not help much here but IMO, 4♣/4♦ should be natural/slammish and
*optional* (consultative) RKC. e.g. over 4♦...
4♥ = 3/1 keys
4♠ = 4/0 keys
4N = misfit or slam unsuitable.
5♣ = 2 keys
5♦ = 2 + trump Q.

Could it be that since optional keycard solved none of these hands that cue bids and natural work better?

I'm not saying RKC has no place here, but I think it's putting the horse before the cart. If we cue 4M (agreeing diamonds) partner can bid 5♥ Sand Wedge RKCB. But for investigating small slams in a minor suits with limited room, RKCB works poorly with two balanced hands.

[gnasher]

Assuming that 5♣ is a cue-bid:

On the first one, after ...5♣-5♥, I think opener should bid 7♦. He's denied an ace or king in either major, yet partner is still making a grand-slam try. The club suit and ♥Q ought to provide enough winners.

On the second one I think opener should sign off in 4NT. Queens and jacks are especially bad when they're known to be opposite a 5332. Then responder will content himself with a small slam.

On the third one, maybe opener should jump to 6♣ over 4♦?

[Zelandakh]

nige1, on 2012-December-18, 21:23, said:

YOU: ♠ xx ♥ QTx ♦ Axx ♣ AKQxx
OXO: ♠ Ax ♥ AKx ♦ KQJxx ♣ Jxx

1♣ = 15+ nat/bal or 18+ any
... - 1♠ = no 4+M, GF
2♦ = 15-17 balanced without 5M
... - 2♥ = modified MSS, 4-3 4-4 5-3 or 5-4 minors
3♣ = 5 clubs
... - 3♠ = serious, spade asking bid
3N = no spade control
... - 4♦ = RKCB
4♠ = 0 or 3
... - 4N = ♣Q?
5N = yes, and no side kings but something extra
... - 7N

nige1, on 2012-December-18, 21:23, said:

YOU: ♠ Qx ♥ QJT ♦ ATx ♣ AQTxx
OXO: ♠ Ax ♥ AKx ♦ KQJxx ♣ Jxx

1♣ = 15+ nat/bal or 18+ any
... - 1♠ = no 4+M, GF
2♦ = 15-17 balanced without 5M
... - 2♥ = modified MSS, 4-3 4-4 5-3 or 5-4 minors
3♣ = 5 clubs
... - 3♠ = serious, spade asking bid
3N = no spade control
... - 4♦ = RKCB
5♣ = 2 with ♣Q
... - 6♣

nige1, on 2012-December-18, 21:23, said:

YOU: ♠ QJ ♥ Qxx ♦ Tx ♣ AKQTxx
OXO: ♠ Ax ♥ AKx ♦ KQJxx ♣ Jxx

2♣ = 10-14, 6+ clubs or 5♣4M
... - 3♠ = slam try agreeing clubs
3N = decline slam try

Possible to bid on here but probably not. Am I being too pessimistic? After all, you can't bid 'em all, right?

nige1, on 2012-December-18, 21:23, said:

YOU: ♠ KQJT ♥ QJT ♦ Axx ♣ QT9
OXO: ♠ Ax ♥ AKx ♦ KQJxx ♣ Jxx

1♣ = 15+ nat/bal or 18+ any
... - 1♠ = no 4+M, GF
2♦ = 15-17 balanced without 5M
... - 2♥ = modified MSS, 4-3 4-4 5-3 or 5-4 minors
2♠ = 0 or 1 4 card minors, no 5m
... - 3♦ = 5 diamonds
3♥ = 3-4 diamonds, decline slam try
... - 4♣ = serious, club asking bid
5♦ = no club control


The first hand is great for my system, the third is bad. The second is so-so, reaching the poorer slam and the last is poor - I would much sooner be able to stop in 3 or 4 NT and 6 will make some of the time if you did not pinpoint a club lead.