[mr1303]

These are the approximate hands. All I've been told is that South held 6 clubs to the AQ, a singleton heart and a 10 count.

---

Agreements are that 1NT was 15-17, 2D was multi-Landy, showing a single suited hand with a major, and that 3C was natural and forcing, as part of the Lebensohl convention.

Assume for the sake of argument, that instead of bidding 4C, South passed 3H. North has opened on a 6 count as a psychic. Would you rule this as a fielded psyche? Assume EBU (traffic lights) regulations.

[ahydra]

I'd argue we can deduce it's partner that's psyched after East overcalls vul at the three-level and partner passes our forcing bid.

ahydra

[billw55]

Passing 3♥ seems normal to me. Regardless of what partner is smoking, I already showed this hand, so I should let him make the next move.

[barmar]

Even without East's 3♥ bid, North's pass has exposed the psych. Although it's possible that he forgot that 3♣ was forcing -- was it alerted and explained?

[Vampyr]

 barmar, on 2013-February-27, 10:17, said:

Even without East's 3♥ bid, North's pass has exposed the psych. Although it's possible that he forgot that 3♣ was forcing -- was it alerted and explained?

What is the jurisdiction? I would be surprised if this natural and forcing call were alertable.

[ArtK78]

The pass exposed the psyche. South can pass.

[barmar]

I wasn't sure if it was alertable, but even if not, an opponent might have asked. My point was to find out whether North has done something that indicates that he knew it was forcing and passed anyway.

[mycroft]

My guess at traffic lights (because I'm not EBU):

Green Fielded Psychic. "Everybody" would figure it out with an unknown partner, unless there is evidence that they don't have an agreement/don't know their agreements over NT interference, and weak 3 clubs is a possibility.

Somebody, I think, will say "how did partner forget it's forcing, I'd better tell her I really have my bid", but my argument is "I've shown my hand, pass is the best description of it no matter what partner's smoking over there - and she's got a call." When I trust partner to have what she's shown (even though I know she doesn't, because she doesn't know that she's shown it), and get us to 6♥x -3 because, I've done the ethical thing. When I do it and can avoid the most horrendous result, I'm being just as ethical. Sometimes "virtue is its own reward".

[campboy]

There is a relevant passage in the White Book.

Quote

Auctions which suggest a player does not have his or her bidding
Some examples of types of auction in which it is clear that the last caller may have a hand materially different from that which the auction to date has suggested:
(a) most auctions in which a player either passes when the partnership agreements require a bid, or bids when the partnership agreement requires a redouble;
(b) most auctions in which a player has bid two or more suits, has been given preference by partner, been doubled for penalties, and bids another suit.
Of course a partnership agreement (which may be implicit, eg following repetitions of such incidents) relating to such an action is likely to be unauthorised, and so may give rise to an adjusted score (see Orange Book).

My tendancy is to rule that there is little to no evidence of fielding in these situations. In fact, had partner passed last round because he had forgotten the system we might have the same argument about whether bidding 4♣ was fielding a misbid.

[campboy]

 Vampyr, on 2013-February-27, 10:30, said:

What is the jurisdiction? I would be surprised if this natural and forcing call were alertable.

Well it is alertable in the EBU (OB5G2d). But not many people are aware of this so it's not clear there's any meaningful UI.

[Vampyr]

 campboy, on 2013-February-27, 11:37, said:

Well it is alertable in the EBU (OB5G2d). But not many people are aware of this so it's not clear there's any meaningful UI.

Right. Well I am doubly surprised!

[aguahombre]

 campboy, on 2013-February-27, 11:37, said:

Well it is alertable in the EBU (OB5G2d). But not many people are aware of this so it's not clear there's any meaningful UI.

I don't know if ACBL requires an alert of 3C in competition which is forcing, but we do so because of doubt that all opponents would know we have Lebensohl to show clubs in a non-forcing way.

In the given situation, we act as if 3C is known by partner to be forcing --if that is our agreement. To do anything else would be either anti-partnership or illegal. Partner passed our forcing bid; why she did that is her problem, and I won't make it mine by bidding again here.

[mr1303]

Thanks all. I told partner that passing here would've been amber at best, but it appears I was wrong.

My thoughts were that partner has just taken a position on the basis of a poor club fit and a minimum.

[mycroft]

For me, there's places where you get to take a view and places where you don't. Having made the canonical limited bid, making me captain is pretty much the #1 "don't" example.

With a regular partner, it doesn't take many "take a view" to pass my forcing bids after having made me captain by limiting his hand before "with a regular partner" becomes false. You just don't do that.

With a pickup, doubly so; passing a forcing bid because you "thought it was right" is something I would think nobody would ever do with anybody they had to play more than one or two boards more with.

So it didn't even cross my mind. Forgetting that it was forcing? Yeah, that crossed my mind - but this doesn't look like a place where any reasonable player would forget. That was my reasoning to Green - and the White Book discussion quoted above seems to agree with me.

[bluejak]

 barmar, on 2013-February-27, 10:17, said:

Even without East's 3♥ bid, North's pass has exposed the psych. Although it's possible that he forgot that 3♣ was forcing -- was it alerted and explained?

Partner passes a forcing bid? He may not have psyched, but it is reasonable to assume he did, and thus implies no partnership understanding. Green: no fielding.