[the hog]

lalldonn, on 2013-April-17, 08:41, said:

1H. I hate bidding 4 with a six card suit. Suppose partner has a singleton and they start tapping you right away. Good luck! 2NT might be ok but I think you are going to miss hearts too much.

Good luck! I think they might find some number of spades before anything else happens. A 1h bid is playing with yourself - not even two handed, but one handed Bridge. The last time I looked there were three other players at the table. If you are considering bidding 5D over 4S, that is truly taking the last guess on the hand as well.
By the way, I think the "walking the dog" comment above by ggwhiz is even funnier. You must play against pretty poor opposition.

[kenberg]

I do not see this being as clear cut as the hog and some others do. It is true that if I bid 1♥ the auction might quickly get to 4♠ their way. This could also happen if I bid 2NT. LHO presumably has a way to show a strong hand with clubs and a weak hand with clubs, as well as a strong hand with spades and a weak hand with spades. Now do I know whether I should bid again? Does my partner? I think, agreeing with the hog, that I prefer 4♥ to 2NT. But it's a shot in the dark, really. 4♥ may be a stupid contract to start with, or a great contract, and if they go on neither I nor my partner will have any idea what we are supposed to do. Maybe they are sacrificing against out makeable 4♥. Or maybe we are supposed to sac in 5♦ Or maybe 4♦ was the last makeable contract by either side. Who knows.


I known spades are far and wide know as the boss suit, but it doesn't always work out that way. This might be our hand, it might be their hand, I dunno. I just start with 1♥. I have been wrong before.

[billw55]

Why is everyone so sure ops own the spades? When I hold hands like this, partner has them as often as not.

[kenberg]

And so, to slightly vary the OP question: What was the bid?

And, right, Bill, that's my thinking also about spades. They may or may not have a big fit. If they do, I don't think that 2NT will stop them from finding it. 4♥ might interfere enough, but
a. They may find it anyway
b. They may not have it.

If, over 1♥, there is a negative double, and if then rho bids spades, then I can be reasonably sure that they have an 8, not a 7 or a 9, card fit. They may or may not have the values for 4♠. Partner will have had a chance to express himself over the X.

[ggwhiz]

the hog, on 2013-April-18, 03:16, said:

A 1h bid is playing with yourself - not even two handed, but one handed Bridge. By the way, I think the "walking the dog" comment above by ggwhiz is even funnier. You must play against pretty poor opposition.

I agree with more of your posts than not, but not this one.

imo 4♥ is playing with yourself for Kens reasons plus the fact that it may lead to a minus score when pard might tee them up in 4♠ and you are hiding significant defence in diamonds. I just think you are removing a bunch of pards constructive bidding options with 4♥ and making them a spectator (that's my definition of unilateral).

If pard does have them modestly wired if they bid to 4♠ over 4♥ how can they tell? Or if we should be diving or negotiating a lower contract on a misfit I want partners input.

As for "walking the dog" I admit to playing in the occasional stratified pairs known as Baby Seals or "Club" games up here. Works against good players that think you are a bum too and I've got plenty of them (plus 1?).

[onoway]

kenberg, on 2013-April-18, 08:44, said:

And so, to slightly vary the OP question: What was the bid?

The bid actually was 2nt at the table and one kib snorted and said no expert would ever make that bid. He suggested the bid should be 4♥. I saw that bid as being unilateral and suggested a somewhat different hand than it actually is. In other words, pretty much the same discussion as here.

[kenberg]

onoway, on 2013-April-18, 10:38, said:

The bid actually was 2nt at the table and one kib snorted and said no expert would ever make that bid. He suggested the bid should be 4♥. I saw that bid as being unilateral and suggested a somewhat different hand than it actually is. In other words, pretty much the same discussion as here.

Leaving me out of the stew, I think that you now have proof that some pretty decent players would do any one of three things. Since the kibs, seeing all four hands, advocated bidding 4♥ I trust that 4♥ would work out well.

[the hog]

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but ggwhiz, I wonder if your recollection of these walking the dog hands is accurate. One tends to remember one's successes and not hands where putting the opps under immediate pressure would have worked out better. I find Bridge memories are selective.

[ggwhiz]

the hog, on 2013-April-18, 18:30, said:

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but ggwhiz, I wonder if your recollection of these walking the dog hands is accurate. One tends to remember one's successes and not hands where putting the opps under immediate pressure would have worked out better. I find Bridge memories are selective.

If you take a look at my postings I'm in the 1♥ bidding camp for all of the reasons thoroughly discussed. A sliver of a chance to walk the dog later is just the icing on the cake.

When I started I played with a guy that trotted out this kind of nonsense (and more) with me in every club the week before our Regional. I asked him what he was doing and he said "advertising". We got lots of tops from people that had witnessed his club act and he had a book on what he had done for every one of them. It does have a rare time and place ie. early in a 64 board match as unknowns against name opps. Doomed but scary can be fun.