[barmar]

The sentence in question was "I think the US is the only country left where these appeal committees exist", right? Is it really the specific wording that's causing confusion, or the claim in general? What do you think he might have intended other than this translation?

Is the original Italian interview published anywhere, so someone can offer an alternate translation with a different connotation?

[aguahombre]

Anyone think to ask LL what he meant?

[barmar]

There was a thread last month in the Appeals Committee forum that begain with:

Quote

According to Sabine Auken in this interview, "there will not be an appeals committee at the European Championships in in Ostend later this year". Is this true, and if so what will there be instead?

And I think Bridge World has also had a number of editorials recommending that the use of ACs be curtailed, replacing them with appealing to higher level directors.

If that's the direction things have been going, I'm not sure why LL's comment can't be taken at face value.

[GreenMan]

barmar, on 2013-May-13, 09:18, said:

There was a thread last month in the Appeals Committee forum that begain with:

And I think Bridge World has also had a number of editorials recommending that the use of ACs be curtailed, replacing them with appealing to higher level directors.

If that's the direction things have been going, I'm not sure why LL's comment can't be taken at face value.

That thread makes quite clear that appeals committees exist in countries other than the U.S.

It may be crystal clear to you what "these appeals committees" refers to, but it seems quite ambiguous to me. Is he referring to any sort of appeals committee, or to some specific sort? You seem to be asserting that your interpretation of that phrase constitutes "face value" that the rest of us should understand exactly as you do, but I disagree.

[diana_eva]

barmar, on 2013-May-13, 08:47, said:

The sentence in question was "I think the US is the only country left where these appeal committees exist", right? Is it really the specific wording that's causing confusion, or the claim in general? What do you think he might have intended other than this translation?

Is the original Italian interview published anywhere, so someone can offer an alternate translation with a different connotation?

the Italian version can be found here:

http://neapolitanclu...intervista.html

With my vague Italian I'd say the translation is incomplete, but keeps the general meaning. "Credo che gli USA siano il solo paese dove ancora esistano questi comitati d'appello che possono sovvertire le decisioni arbitrali precedentemente assunte."

I'd translate this (as word for word as possible):

"I think the United States are the only country where there still exist such appeals committees that can overrule TD decisions previously issued."

Edit. I looked up the verb sovvertire:


sovvertire (sovverˈtire)

Translations
transitive verb

(politics, ordine, stato) to subvert, undermine

This post has been edited by diana_eva: 2013-May-13, 13:21

[aguahombre]

diana_eva, on 2013-May-13, 12:45, said:

I'd translate this (as word for word as possible):

"I think the United States are the only country where there still exist such appeals committees that can overrule TD decisions previously issued."

Edit. I looked up the verb sovvertire:


sovvertire (sovverˈtire)

Translations
transitive verb

(politics, ordine, stato) to subvert, undermine

One might wonder what other kind of appeals committees exist, or what he thinks the word "appeal" means.

[nige1]

GreenMan, on 2013-May-07, 13:02, said:

Don't let's forget that the interview was conducted in Italian and translated by someone who is probably bilingual but not a professional translator, so we shouldn't read too much into the specific wording in the English version, esp. re appeals committees.

GreenMan, on 2013-May-10, 13:39, said:

Translation is a specific skill that does not come automatically with being bilingual. Some of the English in the translation was stilted enough to make it clear she doesn't perform textual translation on a regular basis.

Laura Porro's English seems fine to me. If Lorrenzo Lauria felt that she misrepresented his opinions, he could have said so; but his criticism of the Auken-Monaco ruling is clear:

• He deems the appeal to be specious;
• He judges the appeal ruling to be unfair;
• He deplores the all-American composition of the committee; and
• He doesn't approve of such committees, anyway.

IMO: he's wrong on all counts; and if he can afford to represent his country, he should accept the honour; and weighted rulings are a pathetic fudge.

[barmar]

I don't think he's saying that ACs shouldn't be able to overrule TD decisions, obviously that's what they're for.

Earlier in the response he talked about the composition of the AC (it's only US players), so I think he's saying that more care needs to be taken in making the AC membership fair, because they have this responsibility. Since there are so many international players in national events, the ACs should include some international representation.

Another possible interpretation is that he thinks ACBL allows ACs to overstep their bounds. Law 93B3 says:

Quote

n adjudicating appeals the committee may exercise all powers assigned by these Laws to the Director, except that the committee may not overrule the Director in charge on a point of law or regulations, or on exercise of his Law 91 disciplinary powers. (The committee may recommend to the Director in charge that he change such a ruling.)

Basically, ACs are only allowed to overrule judgement calls, because they have more time to deliberate. But I'm not sure anyone would argue that the AC in the Auken appeal violated the above restriction. Most who argue against the Auken decision simply say that the AC came to the wrong conclusion, not that they weren't empowered to make that decision.

[diana_eva]

Problem solved

[JLOGIC]

Wow at the last thing he said, Italy gonna have trials and so their team will be broken up.

[cherdano]

Does this mean their next team will be a sponsored team?