[cargobeep]

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Rubber.

[aguahombre]

You either play negative doubles or you don't. If you do, it is one. If you don't, it is hearts.

[Codo]

But nearly anybody plays it as take out, so it is one..

[MickyB]

When I've played rubber for money, it's been normal - required, I believe - for everyone to play simple, old-fashioned methods, including penalty doubles in this position.

[PhilKing]

Penalties at every rubber bridge club I've played at.

[billw55]

PhilKing, on 2013-July-17, 07:11, said:

Penalties at every rubber bridge club I've played at.

Interesting. I do not play at rubber clubs or for money, but I have heard this kind of thing before. I have also heard of rubber clubs where conventions are banned entirely .. you must bid what you have. (are even takeout doubles disallowed? Lightner doubles?)

What I wonder is, why is this the case? Why do so many rubber players, seemingly, insist on using inferior and outdated methods?

[Fluffy]

it is fun to bid fully natural when the opponents are handicapped as well

[PhilKing]

billw55, on 2013-July-17, 14:24, said:

Interesting. I do not play at rubber clubs or for money, but I have heard this kind of thing before. I have also heard of rubber clubs where conventions are banned entirely .. you must bid what you have. (are even takeout doubles disallowed? Lightner doubles?)

What I wonder is, why is this the case? Why do so many rubber players, seemingly, insist on using inferior and outdated methods?

It's just the way it is, at least in the UK. At the beginning of each rubber you just agree a no trump range. You are also allowed to agree five-card majors, but thats it.

You don't have to bid what you have (except at the Portland) and Lightner doubles are fine (but partner leads the wrong thing 100% of the time anyway). Doubles are for take-out unless partner has made a call other than pass. After that they are all penalties. A few other gadgets (other than Stayman and the old Black) are used - splinters, UCBs and the unusual NT, but basically you could be playing in 1970 or earlier.

Rather than outdated, consider these methods timeless ...

[ArtK78]

PhilKing, on 2013-July-17, 14:39, said:

It's just the way it is, at least in the UK. At the beginning of each rubber you just agree a no trump range. You are also allowed to agree five-card majors, but thats it.

You don't have to bid what you have (except at the Portland) and Lightner doubles are fine (but partner leads the wrong thing 100% of the time anyway). Doubles are for take-out unless partner has made a call other than pass. After that they are all penalties. A few other gadgets (other than Stayman and the old Black) are used - splinters, UCBs and the unusual NT, but basically you could be playing in 1970 or earlier.

Rather than outdated, consider these methods timeless ...

I started playing in 1972, and these methods (or lack thereof) were antiquated even then.

Perhaps 1940 would be more accurate.

[MickyB]

PhilKing, on 2013-July-17, 14:39, said:

You are also allowed to agree five-card majors

Heresy!

[EricK]

PhilKing, on 2013-July-17, 14:39, said:

It's just the way it is, at least in the UK. At the beginning of each rubber you just agree a no trump range. You are also allowed to agree five-card majors, but thats it.

You don't have to bid what you have (except at the Portland) and Lightner doubles are fine (but partner leads the wrong thing 100% of the time anyway). Doubles are for take-out unless partner has made a call other than pass. After that they are all penalties. A few other gadgets (other than Stayman and the old Black) are used - splinters, UCBs and the unusual NT, but basically you could be playing in 1970 or earlier.

Rather than outdated, consider these methods timeless ...

Are 2 bids strong or weak or do you have a choice? If strong (or weak), does 2C have to be natural (strong (or weak)) or can it be any GF?

[PhilKing]

EricK, on 2013-July-18, 14:22, said:

Are 2 bids strong or weak or do you have a choice? If strong (or weak), does 2C have to be natural (strong (or weak)) or can it be any GF?

Acol twos. 2♣ strong any.

No choice!

2♣ was never widely played as natural and strong in the UK.

[Galbrayek]

undoubtly it is a take out dbl,for it is nearly meaningless to consider this dbl as a penalty dbl

[Zelandakh]

Galbrayek, on 2013-July-18, 21:49, said:

undoubtly it is a take out dbl,for it is nearly meaningless to consider this dbl as a penalty dbl

You would think so but English rubber bridge is a "special" game. It is a bit like having a Tour de France where none of the riders use drugs and everyone uses bikes made from steel. It is a fair contest because everyone does the same; it is just a different type of contest from the one you might be used to.

[broze]

Zelandakh, on 2013-July-19, 02:41, said:

It is a bit like having a Tour de France where none of the riders use drugs and everyone uses bikes made from steel.

Transfer responses to 1♣ is basically blood-doping.