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Zelandakh, on 2013-September-05, 05:10, said:
Did it sound better coming from Rainer than in post #8? He even used the same argument about splitting 3♣ and 5♣.
Sorry, didn't mean to slight you. Just missed it.
A monster, but is game possible?
#21
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Posted 2013-September-05, 08:06
Sorry, didn't mean to slight you. Just missed it.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
#22
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Posted 2013-September-09, 04:26
yunling, on 2013-August-09, 16:43, said:
Your plan?
South's double is ludicrous. He should bid 5♣ there and then. If he does so,the opponents
will be hard put to find their♠fit
"It is not enough to be a good player, you must also play well"
- Dr Tarrasch(1862-1934)German Chess Grandmaster
Bridge is a game where you have two opponents...and often three(!)
"Any palooka can take tricks with Aces and Kings; the true expert shows his prowess
by how he handles the two's and three's" - Mollo's Hideous Hog
- Dr Tarrasch(1862-1934)German Chess Grandmaster
Bridge is a game where you have two opponents...and often three(!)
"Any palooka can take tricks with Aces and Kings; the true expert shows his prowess
by how he handles the two's and three's" - Mollo's Hideous Hog
#23
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Posted 2013-September-09, 04:33
Cyberyeti, on 2013-September-04, 03:31, said:
I have a well developed sense of danger that I sometimes choose to ignore, and an even better sense of probabilities (I have a statistics degree) ? it's one of those hands where you will gain a lot more often than you lose if you bid. Even if you have 3 club losers (unlikely) that's only -100 doubled in 3♣ and they will often make 3M and almost always make 2M.
Bidding is so obvious that I can't see any non beginner passing, bidding more than 3♣ is a gamble. The question was "is game possible" which I answered with that yarborough. The more interesting decision is what to do if you bid 3♣ and they bid 3M.
Bidding is so obvious that I can't see any non beginner passing, bidding more than 3♣ is a gamble. The question was "is game possible" which I answered with that yarborough. The more interesting decision is what to do if you bid 3♣ and they bid 3M.
They who choose to ignore the danger signs cannot then complain about the disaster when it happens(!)
"It is not enough to be a good player, you must also play well"
- Dr Tarrasch(1862-1934)German Chess Grandmaster
Bridge is a game where you have two opponents...and often three(!)
"Any palooka can take tricks with Aces and Kings; the true expert shows his prowess
by how he handles the two's and three's" - Mollo's Hideous Hog
- Dr Tarrasch(1862-1934)German Chess Grandmaster
Bridge is a game where you have two opponents...and often three(!)
"Any palooka can take tricks with Aces and Kings; the true expert shows his prowess
by how he handles the two's and three's" - Mollo's Hideous Hog
#24
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Posted 2013-September-09, 06:08
An interesting hand came up yesterday in the Philadelphia Sectional Swiss Teams. We were using duplicated boards so everyone was playing the same hands. It is not 100% analogous to the hand in this thread, but there are some similarities.
At no one vul, I held:
----
AKQJxx
Axxx
KJx
My RHO opened 1♠ in first seat. This is not the type of hand that I would want to defend 1♠x, but I could not conceive of overcalling 2♥ on these cards, and the thought of overcalling 4♥ did not appeal to me, since there were several possible places to play and slam chances were significant. So I doubled. It went ALL PASS.
When the smoke had cleared, we had +500. Partner held
AQJxxxx
xx
x
xxx
4♥ has a lot of play, but it is not cold, especially on a heart lead. In fact, I heard of some declarers in 4♥ that failed. I don't think our declarer did as well as he could in 1♠x, so perhaps we should get only +300. Still, it is a significant plus score. My teammate, playing in 1♠x on the same auction, managed to MAKE 7 tricks on particularly brutal defense (I will spare you from the details).
I don't know if there is any lesson to be learned from this, but I found it to be interesting.
At no one vul, I held:
----
AKQJxx
Axxx
KJx
My RHO opened 1♠ in first seat. This is not the type of hand that I would want to defend 1♠x, but I could not conceive of overcalling 2♥ on these cards, and the thought of overcalling 4♥ did not appeal to me, since there were several possible places to play and slam chances were significant. So I doubled. It went ALL PASS.
When the smoke had cleared, we had +500. Partner held
AQJxxxx
xx
x
xxx
4♥ has a lot of play, but it is not cold, especially on a heart lead. In fact, I heard of some declarers in 4♥ that failed. I don't think our declarer did as well as he could in 1♠x, so perhaps we should get only +300. Still, it is a significant plus score. My teammate, playing in 1♠x on the same auction, managed to MAKE 7 tricks on particularly brutal defense (I will spare you from the details).
I don't know if there is any lesson to be learned from this, but I found it to be interesting.
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Posted 2013-September-09, 06:16
PhilG007, on 2013-September-09, 04:26, said:
South's double is ludicrous. He should bid 5♣ there and then. If he does so,the opponents
will be hard put to find their♠fit
will be hard put to find their♠fit
And if partner happens to have a few points, we will be hard put to find our slam. It rather sounds like you play your "double and bid" sequences as something akin to a 2♣ opener. That is fine if you have agreed it and are happy with the consequences, but you should not describe a call made by someone playing a more standard system as ludicrous.
(-: Zel :-)
#26
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Posted 2013-September-09, 11:32
PhilG007, on 2013-September-09, 04:33, said:
They who choose to ignore the danger signs cannot then complain about the disaster when it happens(!)
No, we accept the bad results as long as we get good results more often, that's what playing bridge is about, you're not going to be right every time, but if you're not making bids because they might go wrong, although most of the time are right, you won't win very often.
#27
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Posted 2013-September-11, 04:45
Cyberyeti, on 2013-September-03, 01:09, said:
Yes, but xxx, xxxxx, xx, xxx is plenty good enough to make 5♣ and will only defeat 2♠ on perfect defence, and xxx, xxxx, xxxx, xx both 3♣ and 2♠ may well make. Pass is ludicrous, the decision is 3/4/5♣.
What is wrong with passing and defending? On opening lead I would lead A then JS to cut down the enemy's ruffing power.
My high cards in the side suits will then pull their weight in defeating the contract.
What IS ludicrous is declaring on this hand. It's a lost cause. A quixotic attempt on the impossible.
"Enterprise is a fine thing for a man to have in his upper storey provided he has common sense on the ground floor."
"It is not enough to be a good player, you must also play well"
- Dr Tarrasch(1862-1934)German Chess Grandmaster
Bridge is a game where you have two opponents...and often three(!)
"Any palooka can take tricks with Aces and Kings; the true expert shows his prowess
by how he handles the two's and three's" - Mollo's Hideous Hog
- Dr Tarrasch(1862-1934)German Chess Grandmaster
Bridge is a game where you have two opponents...and often three(!)
"Any palooka can take tricks with Aces and Kings; the true expert shows his prowess
by how he handles the two's and three's" - Mollo's Hideous Hog
#28
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Posted 2013-September-11, 05:00
ArtK78, on 2013-September-09, 06:08, said:
An interesting hand came up yesterday in the Philadelphia Sectional Swiss Teams. We were using duplicated boards so everyone was playing the same hands. It is not 100% analogous to the hand in this thread, but there are some similarities.
At no one vul, I held:
----
AKQJxx
Axxx
KJx
My RHO opened 1♠ in first seat. This is not the type of hand that I would want to defend 1♠x, but I could not conceive of overcalling 2♥ on these cards, and the thought of overcalling 4♥ did not appeal to me, since there were several possible places to play and slam chances were significant. So I doubled. It went ALL PASS.
When the smoke had cleared, we had +500. Partner held
AQJxxxx
xx
x
xxx
4♥ has a lot of play, but it is not cold, especially on a heart lead. In fact, I heard of some declarers in 4♥ that failed. I don't think our declarer did as well as he could in 1♠x, so perhaps we should get only +300. Still, it is a significant plus score. My teammate, playing in 1♠x on the same auction, managed to MAKE 7 tricks on particularly brutal defense (I will spare you from the details).
I don't know if there is any lesson to be learned from this, but I found it to be interesting.
At no one vul, I held:
----
AKQJxx
Axxx
KJx
My RHO opened 1♠ in first seat. This is not the type of hand that I would want to defend 1♠x, but I could not conceive of overcalling 2♥ on these cards, and the thought of overcalling 4♥ did not appeal to me, since there were several possible places to play and slam chances were significant. So I doubled. It went ALL PASS.
When the smoke had cleared, we had +500. Partner held
AQJxxxx
xx
x
xxx
4♥ has a lot of play, but it is not cold, especially on a heart lead. In fact, I heard of some declarers in 4♥ that failed. I don't think our declarer did as well as he could in 1♠x, so perhaps we should get only +300. Still, it is a significant plus score. My teammate, playing in 1♠x on the same auction, managed to MAKE 7 tricks on particularly brutal defense (I will spare you from the details).
I don't know if there is any lesson to be learned from this, but I found it to be interesting.
I have never,ever,been happy defending a 1 level contract,it smacks of cowardice and a lack of enterprise and I always complain to my
partner if a one level suit bid is passed out when he could have taken some action. The great 60s English player,Maurice Harrison-Gray had a dictum "Contest those part scores" He was echoed by another great modern day master Ron Klinger.
"Never allow the opponents to play in a low level suit contract. The penalty needed to make it worthwhile may not justify the missed
game or slam that could be your way."
"It is not enough to be a good player, you must also play well"
- Dr Tarrasch(1862-1934)German Chess Grandmaster
Bridge is a game where you have two opponents...and often three(!)
"Any palooka can take tricks with Aces and Kings; the true expert shows his prowess
by how he handles the two's and three's" - Mollo's Hideous Hog
- Dr Tarrasch(1862-1934)German Chess Grandmaster
Bridge is a game where you have two opponents...and often three(!)
"Any palooka can take tricks with Aces and Kings; the true expert shows his prowess
by how he handles the two's and three's" - Mollo's Hideous Hog
#29
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Posted 2013-September-11, 07:12
There is a psychological advantage to defending low level doubled contracts. If you become known as a penalty doubler, your opponents will become more conservative in their bidding. Assuming they're paying attention. Thus you will win more part score battles.
That's the theory, anway.
That's the theory, anway.
--------------------
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
Our ultimate goal on defense is to know by trick two or three everyone's hand at the table. -- Mike777
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
Our ultimate goal on defense is to know by trick two or three everyone's hand at the table. -- Mike777
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#30
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Posted 2013-September-11, 07:17
PhilG007, on 2013-September-11, 04:45, said:
What is wrong with passing and defending? On opening lead I would lead A then JS to cut down the enemy's ruffing power.
My high cards in the side suits will then pull their weight in defeating the contract.
What IS ludicrous is declaring on this hand. It's a lost cause. A quixotic attempt on the impossible.
"Enterprise is a fine thing for a man to have in his upper storey provided he has common sense on the ground floor."
My high cards in the side suits will then pull their weight in defeating the contract.
What IS ludicrous is declaring on this hand. It's a lost cause. A quixotic attempt on the impossible.
"Enterprise is a fine thing for a man to have in his upper storey provided he has common sense on the ground floor."
What's wrong with passing and defending is that it will get you a poor score a very large majority of the time. I'm happy defending 4♠X with this hand, but not 2♠, I have no reason to expect more than 4 tricks in defence, and every reason to expect 9 if not 10 playing the hand opposite a flattish bust.
#31
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Posted 2013-September-11, 09:08
PhilG007, on 2013-September-11, 05:00, said:
I have never,ever,been happy defending a 1 level contract,it smacks of cowardice and a lack of enterprise and I always complain to my
partner if a one level suit bid is passed out when he could have taken some action. The great 60s English player,Maurice Harrison-Gray had a dictum "Contest those part scores" He was echoed by another great modern day master Ron Klinger.
"Never allow the opponents to play in a low level suit contract. The penalty needed to make it worthwhile may not justify the missed
game or slam that could be your way."
partner if a one level suit bid is passed out when he could have taken some action. The great 60s English player,Maurice Harrison-Gray had a dictum "Contest those part scores" He was echoed by another great modern day master Ron Klinger.
"Never allow the opponents to play in a low level suit contract. The penalty needed to make it worthwhile may not justify the missed
game or slam that could be your way."
Unless I am mistaken, +500 at equal nonvul is better than bidding and making 4♥. The fact that some declarers went down in 4♥ tilts the scale further towards defending.
I will admit that I was not happy when my partner passed 1♠x. However, I was a lot happier at the end of the hand.
And, with all due respect to Ron Klinger, I believe it has been said many times that one should never say never.