[jetkro]

The bidding started : 1S - 2H
2S - ?

The system was SAYC.

What should south bid now?

If South bids 3C, then what should north's next bid be?

If north bids 4C, then how should south proceed after that?

the actual auction went like this:

1S 2H
2S 3C
4C 5C minus 1 for a big loss.

Any suggestions for a better outcome?

[DrTodd13]

Better outcome? Try looking at your cards before bidding!

[shanbari]

jetkro, on Jan 17 2005, 01:32 PM, said:

The bidding started :  1S - 2H
                                2S -  ?

The system was SAYC.

What should south bid now?

If South bids 3C, then what should north's next bid be?

If north bids 4C, then how should south proceed after that?

the actual auction went like this:

1S  2H
2S  3C
4C  5C      minus 1 for a big loss.

Any suggestions for a better outcome?

with sayc, it's little tough job, but you may try 3D after 3c.
I would define 3D as club fit, but not willing pass 3nt, which allows partner to signoff in 3nt with minimal, or describe more shape.

of course, opener may use 3d as cuebid before slam going, he would confirm it at 4 level later on


shan

[HeartA]

this kind of post doesn't make much sense without giving the actual hands.

[jetkro]

Sorry for the absence of cards.

KQJ972
K
KT
KT64


8
A97653
AJ4
A72


1S - 2H
2S - 3C
4C - 5C

[pbleighton]

"What should south bid now?"
3NT 1st choice, 3H 2nd choice. 3C in this auction promises 4 cards and a real interest in 5C.

"If South bids 3C, then what should north's next bid be?"
At matchpoints, 3NT. At imps, 5C or 3NT - a tough call. At the table I would probably bid 3NT.

"If north bids 4C, then how should south proceed after that?"
5C.

Peter

[EricK]

Once North has raised the ♣, South should have bid 4♥ to offer an alternative place to play.

North might also have bid 3NT instead of raising the ♣

Eric

[MickyB]

pbleighton, on Jan 17 2005, 09:13 PM, said:

"What should south bid now?"
3NT 1st choice, 3H 2nd choice. 3C in this auction promises 4 cards and a real interest in 5C.

I think you have replied based on playing 2/1 - the system stated is SAYC.

[pbleighton]

"I think you have replied based on playing 2/1 - the system stated is SAYC."

Oops, you are right, 3H isn't a possibility - you are too strong. 3NT it must be.

3C is still wrong. If you play 3C as promising only 3 clubs, how do you show 2 suiters?

Peter

[the hog]

Serves you right for bidding non existent suits. If you are going to play such a system, you must bid 4H now as a possible place to play.

[Stephen Tu]

Quote

3C is still wrong. If you play 3C as promising only 3 clubs, how do you show 2 suiters?

Also 3C. Most of the time with a 2 suiter you are interested more in reaching 4H or 3nt. If you have a really strong 2-suiter interested in 5c/6c, you can always rebid 4C. If you have only 4 clubs, this may miss some 4-4 club fits, but in that case opener is likely minimal (with extras & 4C would rebid 3c over 2h), and 5c/6c may not be that great anyway. There are losses playing this method, but there are also gains. Being able to bid 2H with less than GF values, one can reach good heart games/partials, sometimes even slams (when opener is strong) that 1nt bidders cannot.

I think opener needs to rebid spades since they are fairly solid. 2S has not shown the sixth spade, and certainly not spades this good. Since 2H has taken up a lot of room, and all of opener's rebids are forcing, by necessity one is forced to rebid 2S with a lot of mediocre spade holdings with minimal hands, to give responder room to make a non-forcing call (2nt, 3h), and to handle strong hands more efficiently (e.g. high reverse should show extras, be GF).

[jetkro]

I am having difficulty understanding why many people think that 3C must be a genuine suit.

Would it not be appropriate to bid 3C with say: x, AJxxxx, xxx, AKx ?
Or must one gamble 4H or 3NT?

[han]

I think most posters don't often play a system where 1S-2H-2S-3H is non-forcing. I suppose that a reasonable alternative here (1S-2H-2S-2NT) is also not forcing, argh! This proves that Darwin's theory certainly does not hold for bridge systems.

OK, so if you are going to play a system like SAYC, then you should discuss 1S-2H-2S-3C. Can this be used to create a force, or to show a stopper? You seem to think it should. Then perhaps Opener should have the following obligations:

1) Raise on Hx in hearts.
2) Bid 3NT with a good diamond stopper.
3) Rebid Spades with a suit playable opposite a singleton.
4) Bid 3D without clear direction.
5) Raise clubs with a very distributional hand unsuitable to bid 1-4.

With the actual hand, opener can bid 3NT or 3S.

[Fluffy]

1♠-2♥
2♠-3♣
3♠-3NT
...

Playing a 5 card major with no 2/1 game force these start of the bidding is clear to me, now I am not sure if North should pass, bid 4♣, even 4♠ could be a good choice sometimes.