[whereagles]

I once thought about this situation. What I concluded is this: if you play support doubles or raise spades freely with 3 cards, then you're better off playing like this:

1m 1H 1S = artificial, a good hand not fit for other bids
1m 1H X = 4+ spades. Opener bids 1S with a min and 3 cards or 2/3/4S with 4. If RHO bids, opener either uses supp double or raises to 2M on 3/4 cards.

However, if you don't like supp doubles nor to raise on 3 cards, it's better to play it the other way:

1m 1H 1S = 5 spades
1m 1H X = 4 spades, regular take-out

[the hog]

However, if you don't like supp doubles nor to raise on 3 cards, it's better to play it the other way:

1m 1H 1S = 5 spades
1m 1H X = 4 spades, regular take-out

So what do you do with
xxx
xxx
Kxx
AQxx

after a 1D opening and a 1H overcall? Give up and roll over?

[flytoox]

The_Hog, on Feb 18 2005, 11:05 PM, said:

However, if you don't like supp doubles nor to raise on 3 cards, it's better to play it the other way:

1m 1H 1S = 5 spades
1m 1H X = 4 spades, regular take-out

So what do you do with
xxx
xxx
Kxx
AQxx

after a 1D opening and a 1H overcall? Give up and roll over?

I admit this is the cost playing 1S=5 and x=4 has to pay. On the other hand you can raise to 2M wihtout costing much. Furthermore I gain when LHO is going to raise to 2H or 3H. For example,

1C-1H-1S(4+)-3H(4H)
??

S: ATX
H: XXX
D: A
C: AKJTXX

Each method has merits.

[mike777]

Can we ALL agree that playing 2/1 with a decent "pick up" partner can lead too many, many common bidding points that "common sense" may still leave us with 2 hand types that makes us guess?

Thank you all for your wonderful and thoughtful replies.

This is a very common auction, yet this seems to be a situation where thinking partners in a "pick up" game can disagree.

[hotShot]

The_Hog, on Feb 18 2005, 11:05 PM, said:

However, if you don't like supp doubles nor to raise on 3 cards, it's better to play it the other way:

1m 1H 1S = 5 spades
1m 1H X = 4 spades, regular take-out

So what do you do with
xxx
xxx
Kxx
AQxx

after a 1D opening and a 1H overcall? Give up and roll over?

Well in that case you will have to trust your insticts and bid:

- 1NT, if partner agreed not to expect a ♥ stopper
- 2♣, if this is not to much forcing
- pass, trusting that partner will reopen, if your LHO will pass too.

[EricK]

flytoox, on Feb 18 2005, 11:25 PM, said:

The_Hog, on Feb 18 2005, 11:05 PM, said:

However, if you don't like supp doubles nor to raise on 3 cards, it's better to play it the other way:

1m 1H 1S = 5 spades
1m 1H X = 4 spades, regular take-out

So what do you do with
xxx
xxx
Kxx
AQxx

after a 1D opening and a 1H overcall? Give up and roll over?

I admit this is the cost playing 1S=5 and x=4 has to pay. On the other hand you can raise to 2M wihtout costing much. Furthermore I gain when LHO is going to raise to 2H or 3H. For example,

1C-1H-1S(4+)-3H(4H)
??

S: ATX
H: XXX
D: A
C: AKJTXX

Each method has merits.

I assume that 1♣ (P) 1♠ only promises 4 in your methods, so on your given hand you bid exactly the same as if the bidding had started 1♣ (P) 1♠ (3♥).

If your system doesn't have a bid for this hand then you may want to consider playing that 1♣ (P) 1♠ promises 5 as well

Eric

[whereagles]

The_Hog, on Feb 19 2005, 12:05 AM, said:

However, if you don't like supp doubles nor to raise on 3 cards, it's better to play it the other way:

1m 1H 1S = 5 spades
1m 1H X = 4 spades, regular take-out

So what do you do with
xxx
xxx
Kxx
AQxx

after a 1D opening and a 1H overcall? Give up and roll over?

I bid 1NT. I never worried too much about stoppers, and this hand isn't going to change my mind

But mind you I very much prefer X = 4+ spades and 1S = no 4-card spade, unsuitable for other bid.