[TWO4BRIDGE]

1S ostensibly showed 5c/4s ( Walshish ) :

1C - 1H
1S - 2D! ( EDIT: 4th Suit GF; not NMF )
??

Opener's hand:
A K x x
A x
x x
x x x x x

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Edit: Yes, 2D was 4th suit GF ( not NMF ... duh.. brain fade ) .

This post has been edited by TWO4BRIDGE: 2014-July-30, 10:26

[gordontd]

2♥

[biggerclub]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2014-July-30, 08:03, said:

1S ostensibly showed 5c/4s ( Walshish ) :

1C - 1H
1S - 2D!
??

Opener's hand:
A K x x
A x
x x
x x x x x

I would bid 3♣ as my default here. Don't have 3 Hearts, Don't have a diamond stop, if previous bid did not promise 5-4 this confirms at least 5-4, if previous bid did promise 5-4 this one does promise at least 5-4.

[helene_t]

It's FSF rather than NMF, isn't it? Not that it matters. Probably it is best to let the cheapest bid (2♥) be the default. Even without that agreement there is a case for letting 2♥ be allowed on a doubleton. But I don't think that's mainstream. If this is undiscussed I bid 2♠.

[Siegmund]

If you are the type who always opens 1S with 5-5 and 5-6 hands, 2S now just shows concentrated values in the 4-card spade suit and denies 3 hearts or a diamond stopper. But don't do that unless you've discussed it first.

As it sits, it's a poster child for always asking with 2C, so a cheap noncomittal 2D bid is available. (But there are lots of other hands where you want to go back to 2 of opener's minor.) If 2S implies 5-6, 2H is probably the least of evils.

[gordontd]

Siegmund, on 2014-July-30, 08:54, said:

As it sits, it's a poster child for always asking with 2C, so a cheap noncomittal 2D bid is available.

You play 1♣-1♥-1♠-2♣ as artificial? How do you show simple preference?

[whereagles]

If 2♦ is game forcing: perfect hand for 3♦ (stop ask)

If 2♦ just forcing for 1 round: 2NT I guess. Pard can ask whether my stopper is lolish with 3♦.

[Trinidad]

gordontd, on 2014-July-30, 09:01, said:

You play 1♣-1♥-1♠-2♣ as artificial? How do you show simple preference?

I don't play this method (but I used to play T-Walsh with 2♣ as an artificial relay). But I guess the "false preference" will bid 1NT and the true preference hands will bid 3♣, either immediately or after going through a puppet bid (e.g. 2♣ puppet to 2♦). That is very playable since with a 5-3 club fit, you won't be allowed to play 2♣ anyway.

Rik

[steve2005]

He said his FSF was GF so just bid out your hand with 3♣.

2♠ showing decent ♠ next choice

[fromageGB]

If one of my partners bid 3♦ I would assume not solid diamonds, but something in that suit. 2NT would be a good diamond stop, and 2♥ 3 card support. If he bid 3♣ I would take his clubs to be better than this. The answer for me is a clear 2♠. This does not show an extra spade (we would open 1♠ on 5xx5, so while 2♠ would also be the bid with 5xx6, as the bid is forced I don't think it guarantees that.

Not only does 2♠ show where the values are, but it allows room for 2NT from responder which can then be followed by 3♥ to describe the partial fit.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2014-July-30, 08:03, said:

1S ostensibly showed 5c/4s ( Walshish ) :

1C - 1H
1S - 2D! ( EDIT: 4th Suit GF; not NMF )
??

Opener's hand:
A K x x
A x
x x
x x x x x

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Edit: Yes, 2D was 4th suit GF ( not NMF ... duh.. brain fade ) .

Well, I finally remembered reading in MaxHardy's yellow paperback ( p.149 ) about
"the least plausible ( or most outlandish lie ) rebid " after being stuck for a bid after 4th suit Game Force .

The 4th Suit GF auction was the same one shown here .

He suggested 2S also since the 5s/6c hand is very rare .
And if you did have that hand, a 3S rebid next would show the 5s/6c :
1C - 1H
1S - 2D!
2S! ( does not guarantee 5 cards ) - 2NT or 3C/D/H
3S = 5s/6c

[Fluffy]

Here is what all possible bids mean for me:

2♥: 3 card support, although in theory 2 with a honnor is possible, it is rare because on this case 2♠ means...
2♠: Free bid to show nothing, normally a 4225 or 4135 without a diamond stopper, for some people it is ambiguous with a 5-6 hand, but even if that is an option it is a big underdog as it happens like a 5-1 ratio vs the non stopper hand.
2NT. Diamond stopper, no extras
3♣: 6+ clubs
3♦: 3 strong diamonds, extras.
3♥: natural, extras
3♠: Good 5-6 or 5-7 but not enough for 2♠ previous round.
3NT: strong 5422 with stopper.,

[gordontd]

I'm surprised by how many people think they can bid 2♠ without being concerned that their partners will think they have five of them.
I think I can bid 2♥ without it showing three because on minimal hands with three hearts I would have raised on the previous round, and with significant extras I would bid 3♥ on this round.

[helene_t]

gordontd, on 2014-August-01, 02:08, said:

I'm surprised by how many people think they can bid 2♠ without being concerned that their partners will think they have five of them.
I think I can bid 2♥ without it showing three because on minimal hands with three hearts I would have raised on the previous round, and with significant extras I would bid 3♥ on this round.

2♠ is a cheap bid and there is enough room to sort it out. Responder will bid something (his most neutral bid would be 3♣) and now I bid
3♦ with 4135 no diamond stopper, minimum
3♥ with this hand
3♠ with 5
3NT with 4135 half a diamond stopper

2♥ is fine, too, it leaves us with even more room.

[MrAce]

I agree with Gordon, I would not bid 2 spade w/o agreement, even though I agree with most of you that 2sp should be used not promising 5 of them especially for people like me who always open 1 sp with 5-5 blacks.

I just would not do it though unless pd knows it.

[helene_t]

But Timo what would you do then? I would think that a random p is more likely to take 2♥ as showing 3 than 2♠ as showing 5. I suppose one could bid 3♣ because it's better to lie about a minor. But for this pair the 1♠ bid already showed five clubs so 3♣ is technically just about the worst bid I can imagine.

[MrAce]

helene_t, on 2014-August-01, 04:07, said:

But Timo what would you do then? I would think that a random p is more likely to take 2♥ as showing 3 than 2♠ as showing 5. I suppose one could bid 3♣ because it's better to lie about a minor. But for this pair the 1♠ bid already showed five clubs so 3♣ is technically just about the worst bid I can imagine.

I would probably bid 2h or 2 NT. As you probably know from my past comments in these forums that xx vs xxx is all I need to land in 3 NT. Especially if playing with a weak pd.
With a decent pd like you I would probably bid 2h :-)
But yes I agree with most of you that 2 sp here should be standard, if not already, a " catch all " kinda bid.

[the hog]

3c. Can't bid 2h to show a 4315, can't bid 3d as that show 4045. With some pds I would bid 2s, but most here would interpret that as 5/5.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

the hog, on 2014-August-01, 04:56, said:

3c. Can't bid 2h to show a 4315, can't bid 3d as that show 4045. With some pds I would bid 2s, but most here would interpret that as 5/5.

See my post # 11

[aguahombre]

the hog, on 2014-August-01, 04:56, said:

With some pds I would bid 2s, but most here would interpret that as 5/5.

Most here probably would. Your 2S agreement with some pards was written up by Hardy, as two4 states. He didn't invent it, so the Hardy bashers need'nt feel obligated to disregard.