[Liversidge]

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We went 3 down doubled vulnerable. I know I should have kept quiet. The result and everyone else at the table said so afterwards, but I was in no state to take anything in. I didn't overcall 3♠as I thought my hand was better in defence, but when partner bid 4♦I panicked and thought my spades might be better. As it turned out he had a singleton K♠. I'd appreciate thoughts.

[Cyberyeti]

Partner hasn't overcalled 3♦ so doesn't have a real hand. Expect partner to have long diamonds but no great strength, while spades might play better, it won't play much better and 4♦ isn't doubled yet.

[Liversidge]

Should have said that the 2♥opening was a weak 2!

[neilkaz]

One wonders what PD has to enter the auction vul at the 4 level after passing but surely it must be a tons of ♦ and strength that he didn't feel was worth overcalling 3♦ the first time.

Your pass over 4♦ should be automatic. Don't panic when you don't fit PD's suit when he has to have a fist full of them.

[Stephen Tu]

I would blame 4♦ more than 4♠. WTH kind of hand makes a balancing 4m vul vs. not? I would never make such a call, have never heard the call by my partners, so who knows what you are supposed to expect opposite? 4♠ at least has the upside of game if it makes, you do have 7 of them! It rates to work out better than passing if partner merely missorted their hand and forgot to overcall 3♦ having not seen an ace or whatever. How do you know they are going to double you, especially how can you anticipate the weak two bidder doubling you? So I have more sympathy for 4♠ than the other posters, I think they are somewhat resulting knowing how the auction continues. It would have been better if you had posted the hand with 4d p ? to you and asked opinions on what to do, without showing how the rest of the hand played out.

Don't know why they aren't doubling 4♦ which was probably down at least two if not just as much..

[MrAce]

I am % 100 with Cyber on this one.

[the hog]

I refuse to play with people like your partner. They are not bridge players. Passing and then bidding 4D is absurd. If you don't have a 3D bid, you certainly do not have a 4D bid under ANY circumstances.

[Cyberyeti]

the hog, on 2014-August-16, 23:28, said:

I refuse to play with people like your partner. They are not bridge players. Passing and then bidding 4D is absurd. If you don't have a 3D bid, you certainly do not have a 4D bid under ANY circumstances.

What do you bid with a hand where you don't have the defence for a 3♦ bid but have a lot of playing strength in diamonds ? KQJ 8th or 9th and a king or so.

[uday]

Quote

4♦ isn't doubled yet.

Yep. That's the takeaway. When you have to choose between going down in this, vs that, and one is undoubled....

[deborahh]

It's always important to be the least wrong partner. Pass 4♦ so you can blame your partner when you go down.

[cherdano]

What did partner have?

[the hog]

Cyberyeti, on 2014-August-17, 02:25, said:

What do you bid with a hand where you don't have the defence for a 3♦ bid but have a lot of playing strength in diamonds ? KQJ 8th or 9th and a king or so.

I would bid an immediate 3D with the hand you quote. Bidding 4D here is taking the last guess. Why do you think 3D promises defence?

[helene_t]

Strange that it was opener who doubled. Was it meant as an action double?

[Cyberyeti]

the hog, on 2014-August-18, 01:14, said:

I would bid an immediate 3D with the hand you quote. Bidding 4D here is taking the last guess. Why do you think 3D promises defence?

Because I like partner to be able to double from time to time, here he can have 4 tricks and still not be beating it.

Bid weak over strong bids and strong over weak bids, I'm not showing strength I don't have over a weak bid.

[Stephen Tu]

Just because you overcall 3♦ doesn't mean you are obligated to leave 3♥ doubled in? (Plus 3♥ doubled would be responsive for a lot of people)

I just don't see why choosing a delayed sequence rates to improve your results.

[helene_t]

Ok but partner might double 4h which you pull. And then he doubles 5h.
I would expect partner to have eight diamonds. He thinks I must have a 16 count with four hearts or such since opps didn't bid game . And he hopes that I can raise . RHO must have been joking with his 3h bid . maybe he felt from partners vibrations that he would balance against 3h. But his pass over 4d is strange

[Cyberyeti]

Stephen Tu, on 2014-August-18, 10:02, said:

Just because you overcall 3♦ doesn't mean you are obligated to leave 3♥ doubled in? (Plus 3♥ doubled would be responsive for a lot of people)

I just don't see why choosing a delayed sequence rates to improve your results.

Partly because the auction doesn't go 2♥-3♦-3♥-3N giving me a horrible decision as to whether partner's taken me for a real hand, boy it's going to play well opposite Axxx, AKx, xx, 10xxx, but if I pull, partner will have something like Kxx, Axx, Ax, J10xxx and 3N will be cold but 5♦ won't make.

[cherdano]

Cyberyeti, on 2014-August-18, 10:27, said:

Partly because the auction doesn't go 2♥-3♦-3♥-3N giving me a horrible decision as to whether partner's taken me for a real hand, boy it's going to play well opposite Axxx, AKx, xx, 10xxx, but if I pull, partner will have something like Kxx, Axx, Ax, J10xxx and 3N will be cold but 5♦ won't make.

I thought the example hand we are discussing was KQJ-8th and another king; that hand has play for 3N opposite either hand.

But even so, I don't understand your point. If you think 3N is odds on, you can pass it, and you are doing better than passing-and-pulling to 4♦. If you think 3N is odds against, you can pull to 5♦ and you are even with the delayed sequence.

[mikeh]

They have called out the de-icers in hell! I agree with cyber on a thread.

[billw55]

the hog, on 2014-August-16, 23:28, said:

I refuse to play with people like your partner. They are not bridge players. Passing and then bidding 4D is absurd. If you don't have a 3D bid, you certainly do not have a 4D bid under ANY circumstances.

I tend to agree. And strangely, there are a LOT of people like this in the MBC. I even have a standard profile note for them, "delayed entry". They pass at their first chance to overcall, then come in later at a higher level. Usually it indicates a junk hand with long suit, although a rickety five card suit is by no means rare. Adapting to this "style" is an .. art, you might say. Not a skill that applies to flight B or above though.

Anyway, I really do want to see north's hand in this case. The whole deal too while you are at it, the EW calls may also be of interest.