[flytoox]

Terry_Gao, on Mar 4 2005, 07:47 AM, said:

Scrambling, of course!
Were this 2NT natural, he'd have bid 2NT immediately.
Were the first pass a trap, he'd have passed again.

Quote

If 2nt makes, expect to beat 2h.

It's right, but not sufficient I think. 'Cause sometimes 2♥X is less profitable than 3NT or even 2NT.

Good argument. Those believe this 2N is natural should ask themselve what immediate 2N should be.

[Flame]

flytoox, on Mar 4 2005, 06:46 PM, said:

Terry_Gao, on Mar 4 2005, 07:47 AM, said:

Scrambling, of course!
Were this 2NT natural, he'd have bid 2NT immediately.
Were the first pass a trap, he'd have passed again.

Quote

If 2nt makes, expect to beat 2h.

It's right, but not sufficient I think. 'Cause sometimes 2♥X is less profitable than 3NT or even 2NT.

Good argument. Those believe this 2N is natural should ask themselve what immediate 2N should be.

Also when things go wrong 2H makes is much worse then 2nt-1.

[Winstonm]

This is a really good question and brings up the point that to be a truly effective partnership means to define, define, and define some more.

First, I ask myself could this be natural? I could see that it could be - not so much as to suggest a contract but as a "least of all evils" bid. What would partner do if he picked up: xxx, KQxx, Jxxx, xx and we had this auction? Maybe 2N will only go down 1.

Or could it mean a middling hand not good enough for an immediate 2N and without enough defense to pass, such as: xxx, Q10x, KJxx, Kxx?

I would need 2N naturally with these two types of hands it seems.

What could I do with scrambling hands?

I could 1) support clubs with 4 of them. 2) Bid a 5-card diamond suit. Only with 4 diamonds and 3 clubs would I need to scramble, but then I'd also have to hold 4 or 5 hearts else I could bid 2S. I believe in this case it is right to follow the advice of Eddie Kantar that when they preempt, partner did not open a short minor, so it is right to go ahead and bid 3 clubs on the 3 bagger....if we get doubled, then I can redouble as my scramble.

I am inclined then to use this as natural, but with an untried partner I would surely as opener rebid 3C with 5 of them just in case.