Responding to a Strong 2 Club opening
#1
Posted 2015-January-16, 05:54
He didn't have time to discuss it further and assured me that he was quite relaxed about it all, saying we were bound to get a few things wrong but 'it's just a game', but I'd like to brush up on it beforehand, even though it's unlikely to come up. I can find quite a few variations on responder bids but not anything that covers this. Another club member plays the same system.
Any help welcome.
#2
Posted 2015-January-16, 05:55
it would be obvious to a child that you're pre-empting your strongest hands for very little gain.
you try bidding akjxxx akqx void aqx after 2c-3d when you've no idea about responder's shape.
#3
Posted 2015-January-16, 06:09
- 2D = negative, suit = 5+ positive (pretty standard at club level)
- 2D = relay, 2H = double negative, suit = 6+ cards with 2 of top 3 (big improvement)
- or even a simple "2C forces 2D".
Showing specific aces isn't worth it by a long shot. You're denying opener the room he needs.
ahydra
#4
Posted 2015-January-16, 06:10
-- Bertrand Russell
#5
Posted 2015-January-16, 06:18
- in which contested auctions do stayman and transfers apply
- basic agreements about negative doubles.
- how do you bid when they interfere over your 1nt opening
- ranges of notrump rebids
- which suit to open with 4432 types including a major and a minor
- which bids are forcing/gameforcing after responders two level reply
- which signals do you give on partners lead
- does the lead of a small spot show an honour or could it be fourth best from rubish
- do you lead top of nothing against notrump
#6
Posted 2015-January-16, 09:15
Liversidge, on 2015-January-16, 05:54, said:
And what does he plan to do if you open 2♣?
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Liversidge, on 2015-January-16, 05:54, said:
It sounds like he has a good attitude about it. I wouldn't worry too much. Usually I find that in a one time game, it is best just to play what partner wants even if it is bad.
With a recurring partnership, you will want to develop something that is both more detailed and less wasteful. But that is another thread.
-gwnn
#7
Posted 2015-January-16, 11:09
I agree with the posters above: for a one-off, if you can remember it, don't worry about whatever you play. CAB responses to 2♣ aren't efficient, sure, but when they work, boy do they work - and if the expert is the 2♣ opener, she'll know how to ask for what else she needs. For all the inefficiencies this will cause, not knowing what partner will lead middle of the hand from three small (and the other thousand things of that "inconsequence") is going to cost you more.
#9
Posted 2015-January-16, 11:57
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#10
Posted 2015-January-16, 12:51
billw55, on 2015-January-16, 09:15, said:
It sounds like he has a good attitude about it. I wouldn't worry too much. Usually I find that in a one time game, it is best just to play what partner wants even if it is bad.
I don't like this players attitude. He's given you a pet method and very little to go by.
While I'm calling this a pet method it sounds strangely like Standard Goren (after weak 2's). There it was 2♦ negative, everything else is positive. I wouldn't go out of my way to show a five bagger at the 3 level and would just lie with 2N.
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#11
Posted 2015-January-16, 12:55
I have never played Ace showing responses to 2♣ openings. This sounds like a holdover from the old Schenken strong club system, in which a 2♦ opening bid was STRONG and I believe that responses showed aces. This may be why you don't see anyone playing Schenken club anymore.
#13
Posted 2015-January-16, 16:40
It's certainly better than point count showing responses.
For a partnership of beginners who can't get control showing cue bids straight, I'd recommend this method. Otherwise I think it wastes too much space.
You should play that 4N by a 2♣ opener asks for number of kings when it would ordinarily be Blackwood.
EDIT: I remember now - it's Crodo in Italian
#14
Posted 2015-January-16, 18:21
akwoo, on 2015-January-16, 16:40, said:
I am not sure. Usually the 2♣ opener has some aces so it is redundant if responder tells opener which aces he has. Suppose you have three aces and responder bids 3♦ to show the ace of diamonds ....
Point counts sometimes allows opener to take initiative. For example, if it goes
2♣-whatever
3♦-3NT
or
2♣-whatever
3♣-3♥
3♠-3NT
then it would be nice for opener to know if responder has enough for opener to move towards slam. But OK, maybe the window between the second negative and responder's slam force is narrow enough that opener will know anyway.
I am not advocating point steps, but I think specific aces are even worse.
But probably it all depends on your requirements for a 2♣ opener. My dad used to play that 2♣ virtualy guarantees a one-suited or balanced hand, since most strong two-suiters could open at the 1-level (they never passed a minor suit opening if they had a king). In that style, responder doesn't need to show a suit and control steps are probably reasonable.
I rarely open 2♣ with primarily a minor suit but I could easily have a two-suiter or a 5431 with a major as longest suit. In that style, I prefer responder to show a long suit or to leave the bidding space to opener.
#15
Posted 2015-January-17, 04:59
I think your bigger problem is how to proceed when you are the one who has a 2C opener and partner unhelpfully follows his own advice and just shows you an ace.
Maybe you should restrict your own 2C openers to those where you can place the final contract in the knowledge of partner's ace.
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#17
Posted 2015-January-17, 14:30
What works as well and any and better than most is to play 2♦ always waiting. Many will tell you that is a wasted bid but in reality most of the other methods use up more bidding space.
2♣ says: "Partner I have a big hand"
2♦ says: "Great, tell me more"
With the exception of minors, the bidding is now at the exact point it was in days gone by when all 2 bids were strong.
After the 2♣ - 2♦ relay, follow on bids can be the same as outlined in Goren Complete and they still work today.
#18
Posted 2015-January-17, 17:17
A - 2 bids not that common and
B - having an Ace opp also not so very common - so let pard have his way with a relatively harmless although possibly useless convention. daffydoc
PS of course I also do not like 2H dbl neg - and insist upon positive response 2/3 honors in 5+ suit. 2D waiting really works quite well in most scenarios if one knows the basic follow up.s
#19
Posted 2015-January-18, 13:41
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#20
Posted 2015-January-18, 14:08
blackshoe, on 2015-January-18, 13:41, said:
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Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. m
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"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"
"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq