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Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped? Bernie Sanders wants to know who owns America?

#20601 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2022-November-11, 08:00

About DeSantis and Trump:

If 2024 is Biden vs Trump I think Biden wins. If it is Biden vs DeSantis I am less confident of a Biden win.

One way of looking at this: Dems need to give some serious thought to how to win against DeSantis. That could be a good thing.

We had a scaled-down version of that in the Maryland race for governor. Cox, the R candidate, was an election denier, a Qanon fan and just generally hopeless. He lost. There was a more reasonable person, Kelly Schulz, running in the R primary. She was endorsed by our two-term R governor Larry Hogan and, at least perhaps, she would have won the general election. The ultimate winner, our next governor, was Wes Moore.I think Moore is quite a good guy, I am fine with him as governor, but he probably leans further leftward than I do. Running against Cox, that wasn't a problem, running against Kelly, it might have been a problem.

The point is this: With Cox as the R candidate, the Ds could have successfully run a canary against him. Against Kelly, more care would be needed. The same could be true in 2024 at the presidential level. Joe Biden has his good points and his bad points but all in all I think he needs to say "I beat Trump in 2020, job well done, I will now retire". And then the Ds need to pick someone who can beat DeSantis and can beat other possible R candidates. There are voters out there, maybe quite a few, who would choose Biden over Trump on the basis that of course we cannot have a return to Trump, but would need some convincing to go with Biden rather than DeSantis. In my "Best of all possible worlds" scenario: The Ds decide they need Biden to retire and that they will put up someone who can beat DeSantis. Then the Rs decide "OMG, the D's are going to put up a really good candidate, maybe we should re-think going with DeSantis". And then we get a first-rate D running against a first-rate R.

Naive? Yep. More than I can realistically hope for? Yep. But it is the direction I can hope we are headed in. Something about long journeys and first steps comes to mind.
Ken
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#20602 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2022-November-11, 13:34

View Postkenberg, on 2022-November-11, 08:00, said:

About DeSantis and Trump:

If 2024 is Biden vs Trump I think Biden wins. If it is Biden vs DeSantis I am less confident of a Biden win.

One way of looking at this: Dems need to give some serious thought to how to win against DeSantis. That could be a good thing.

We had a scaled-down version of that in the Maryland race for governor. Cox, the R candidate, was an election denier, a Qanon fan and just generally hopeless. He lost. There was a more reasonable person, Kelly Schulz, running in the R primary. She was endorsed by our two-term R governor Larry Hogan and, at least perhaps, she would have won the general election. The ultimate winner, our next governor, was Wes Moore.I think Moore is quite a good guy, I am fine with him as governor, but he probably leans further leftward than I do. Running against Cox, that wasn't a problem, running against Kelly, it might have been a problem.

The point is this: With Cox as the R candidate, the Ds could have successfully run a canary against him. Against Kelly, more care would be needed. The same could be true in 2024 at the presidential level. Joe Biden has his good points and his bad points but all in all I think he needs to say "I beat Trump in 2020, job well done, I will now retire". And then the Ds need to pick someone who can beat DeSantis and can beat other possible R candidates. There are voters out there, maybe quite a few, who would choose Biden over Trump on the basis that of course we cannot have a return to Trump, but would need some convincing to go with Biden rather than DeSantis. In my "Best of all possible worlds" scenario: The Ds decide they need Biden to retire and that they will put up someone who can beat DeSantis. Then the Rs decide "OMG, the D's are going to put up a really good candidate, maybe we should re-think going with DeSantis". And then we get a first-rate D running against a first-rate R.

Naive? Yep. More than I can realistically hope for? Yep. But it is the direction I can hope we are headed in. Something about long journeys and first steps comes to mind.

This can never happen until the wealthy withdraw monetary support for the crazoids.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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#20603 User is offline   Chas_P1 

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Posted 2022-November-11, 18:44

View Postbarmar, on 2022-November-10, 18:51, said:

Trump is the "devil you know"

I agree. And I'm completely off his bandwagon.
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#20604 User is offline   pilowsky 

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Posted 2022-November-13, 01:08

A senate majority - who would have thought?
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#20605 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2022-November-13, 08:43

View Postpilowsky, on 2022-November-13, 01:08, said:

A senate majority - who would have thought?


Explanations will be interesting, no doubt there will be many. A thought: It was not that long ago that Republicans were being told that they had to believe the 2020 election was stolen, or else they were a RINO. At some point people get really tired of being told that they must believe something that is obviously false. It brings to mind the 1950s when people asked themselves if they really believed that a neighbor or friend who voted for Stevenson was a commie. Here a commie, there a commie, everywhere a commie commie. People finally said "Wait, I am being played". Back to the present, the 2020 election is over, long over, Biden won, and people are tired of pretending otherwise. It's tough to discuss geography if we are told we must begin by asserting that the world is flat, or else we are a GINO.

There will be deeper and more rational explanations, no doubt with merit, but emotional explanations should not be overlooked. This thought has many applications in life, in politics, and so on.
Ken
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#20606 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2022-November-13, 19:44

Letís put Trump into the Big House not the White House
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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#20607 User is offline   pilowsky 

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Posted 2022-November-13, 20:03

View PostWinstonm, on 2022-November-13, 19:44, said:

Let's put Trump into the Big House not the White House


The fact that Trump exists in a "democracy" governed by the "rule of law" suggests a fundamental flaw in the experiment.

If you design an experiment to determine if 1+1=2 and the answer keeps coming out "I'm going to appeal to a higher court", surely the experiment isn't intelligently designed - so to speak.
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#20608 User is offline   pilowsky 

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Posted 2022-November-15, 20:28

Here we go again...
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#20609 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2022-November-15, 21:39

Trumpís biggest booster is the media.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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#20610 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2022-November-15, 21:55

View PostWinstonm, on 2022-November-15, 21:39, said:

Trumpís biggest booster is the media.

That's what the mute button is for.
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#20611 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2022-November-16, 06:10

View Postjillybean, on 2022-November-15, 21:55, said:

That's what the mute button is for.


I agree. If everyone switched off their television, Trump would disappear into irrelevance.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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#20612 User is offline   thepossum 

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Posted 2022-November-19, 20:34

View PostWinstonm, on 2022-November-16, 06:10, said:

I agree. If everyone switched off their television, Trump would disappear into irrelevance.


He's just been reinstated onto Twitter
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#20613 User is offline   pilowsky 

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Posted 2022-November-19, 20:45

View Postthepossum, on 2022-November-19, 20:34, said:

He's just been reinstated onto Twitter


At this rate he'll be the only one there.
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#20614 User is offline   thepossum 

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Posted 2022-November-19, 21:18

View Postpilowsky, on 2022-November-19, 20:45, said:

At this rate he'll be the only one there.


Who knows or ranting into the ether all by himself. There are block and mute functions
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#20615 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2022-November-19, 22:00

View Postthepossum, on 2022-November-19, 20:34, said:

He's just been reinstated onto Twitter

Twitter may vanish.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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#20616 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2022-November-21, 09:45

View PostWinstonm, on 2022-November-19, 22:00, said:

Twitter may vanish.

Maybe Musk will sell it to Trump. That will guarantee that it goes bankrupt.

#20617 User is offline   GeoBurdell 

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Posted 2022-November-21, 19:02

View Postbarmar, on 2022-November-21, 09:45, said:

Maybe Musk will sell it to Trump. That will guarantee that it goes bankrupt.

Maybe not a bad idea.
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#20618 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2022-November-21, 19:06

View Postbarmar, on 2022-November-21, 09:45, said:

Maybe Musk will sell it to Trump.

Only if he wants to get stiffed.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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#20619 User is offline   pilowsky 

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Posted 2022-November-23, 23:42

Amazing - actual space lasers!
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#20620 User is offline   pilowsky 

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Posted 2022-December-06, 23:12

Warnock wins.
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