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Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped? Bernie Sanders wants to know who owns America?

#21421 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted Yesterday, 14:39

So have we all finally gotten tired of talking about Trump? The thread was idle over 3 weeks, and then only 1 post with no responses.

#21422 User is offline   pilowsky 

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Posted Yesterday, 17:06

Because the forum's broken - it keeps crashing when you hit 'post'.
Non legit hoc
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#21423 User is online   kenberg 

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Posted Yesterday, 19:01

View Postbarmar, on 2024-April-22, 14:39, said:

So have we all finally gotten tired of talking about Trump? The thread was idle over 3 weeks, and then only 1 post with no responses.


My two daughters and one son-in-law came over for a while yesterday and we did talk a little about Trump. Not all that much. We all agree, and we all know that we all agree, so what''s to say? I think that's a bit of what's going on with the Trump thread here.

It could be a little interesting to speculate on just why Mike Johnson chose to bring this to a vote, defying some in his party. One thought: Before he was Speaker, he could shoot off his mouth and who cares. But now? He has power. He could bring it (the funding bills) to a vote, he could keep it from coming to a vote. I often fall into unjustified optimism, but perhaps he thought about whehter he really wanted to be the person who kept needed funding from happening. I have various regretd in my life but, for me, using my power to keep needed funding from happening would be a major regret to live with forever.

Hopiing that a politician, any politician, decides to do what is right simply because it is right is naive, I get that. One can hope.
Ken
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#21424 User is offline   pilowsky 

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Posted Yesterday, 20:43

Perhaps we can term this the "fish and chip wrapper syndrome".

People are mainly anxious about things that affect them directly and since Trump is no longer a direct existential threat people don't like to discuss it.
Strangely, there seems to be a growing perception that Trump wasn't that bad (the "after all Mussolini did get the trains running on time" fallacy).

I've just been reading Michael Lewis' book "The fifth risk".

It seems that we were only saved from the worst of Trump because he was unprepared and incompetent.
Next time would be much worse.

A person, born in 2004, was 12 years old when Trump was elected.
Watching in horror and unable to do anything.
Today they're 22 - what will they do in November?
Non legit hoc
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#21425 User is offline   shyams 

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Posted Today, 02:42

View Postbarmar, on 2024-April-22, 14:39, said:

So have we all finally gotten tired of talking about Trump? The thread was idle over 3 weeks, and then only 1 post with no responses.


What's the point in responding? Most Americans are convinced that Russia is, and has been, the enemy of all things good/moral/holy. That Russia poses an existential threat to your nation and your way of life.

Maybe the knowledgeable posters on this forum can list all instances over the past 15-20 years where Russia has directly harmed or threatened the soverignty or key national interests of the USA. Perhaps you'd like toinclude USA's closest allies in the West (Canada, UK, France, Germany, Australia) -- how has Russia harmed these nations?
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#21426 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted Today, 02:52

View Postshyams, on 2024-April-23, 02:42, said:

What's the point in responding? Most Americans are convinced that Russia is, and has been, the enemy of all things good/moral/holy. That Russia poses an existential threat to your nation and your way of life.

Maybe the knowledgeable posters on this forum can list all instances over the past 15-20 years where Russia has directly harmed or threatened the soverignty or key national interests of the USA. Perhaps you'd like toinclude USA's closest allies in the West (Canada, UK, France, Germany, Australia) -- how has Russia harmed these nations?


Massive amounts of cybercrime particularly ransomware attacks, election interference.

Also the woman killed when she picked up the Novichok bottle after the Skripal attack.
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#21427 User is offline   shyams 

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Posted Today, 03:51

View PostCyberyeti, on 2024-April-23, 02:52, said:

Massive amounts of cybercrime particularly ransomware attacks, election interference.

Also the woman killed when she picked up the Novichok bottle after the Skripal attack.

1. Cybercrime is everywhere (I am not trying to justify or reduce Russia's role in it). The biggest & most clearly visible cybercrime attack ("Wannacry") on the UK was done by N Korea. Are we sure Russian cybercrime is so pervasive and pernicious that it stands out above all others?
2. Election interference: How? The UK general elections definitely have not been compromised (by anybody). Not aware of any other nation suffering either --- except USA (of course). How big & how real the Russian election interference in US elections will vary based on who is opining (My view: definitely affected a chunk of voters, but nobody knows if it swung elections in any material way)
3. Skripal attack: Yes, agreed (incl. the death of that woman). So does the polonium poisoning of Litvinenko in Central London.

Edit: Are the above three topics "existential risks"?
Trudeau tells his nation that if Russia defeats Ukraine, Canada is next in the firing line --- if everyone believes it to be true, then the assault & ravaging of Ukraine by Russia is genuinely existential for Canada. But is it true?

This post has been edited by shyams: Today, 04:04

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#21428 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted Today, 07:03

Gaslighting comes in many flavors and tying risk to existential threat is its vanilla. The risk is not Russia but Putin in control of Russia, and as such he is actively and consistently working to undermine the stability of liberal democracies worldwide, not to cause collapse but to create regime changes that are favorable to his interests.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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#21429 User is offline   shyams 

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Posted Today, 07:19

View PostWinstonm, on 2024-April-23, 07:03, said:

Gaslighting comes in many flavors and tying risk to existential threat is its vanilla. The risk is not Russia but Putin in control of Russia, and as such he is actively and consistently working to undermine the stability of liberal democracies worldwide, not to cause collapse but to create regime changes that are favorable to his interests.

ROFL
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#21430 User is online   kenberg 

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Posted Today, 14:59

View Postpilowsky, on 2024-April-22, 20:43, said:

Perhaps we can term this the "fish and chip wrapper syndrome".

People are mainly anxious about things that affect them directly and since Trump is no longer a direct existential threat people don't like to discuss it.
Strangely, there seems to be a growing perception that Trump wasn't that bad (the "after all Mussolini did get the trains running on time" fallacy).

I've just been reading Michael Lewis' book "The fifth risk".

It seems that we were only saved from the worst of Trump because he was unprepared and incompetent.
Next time would be much worse.

A person, born in 2004, was 12 years old when Trump was elected.
Watching in horror and unable to do anything.
Today they're 22 - what will they do in November?


I have not heard anyone say "Trump wasn't that bad ". IN the family conversation I referred to above the unanimous view was that he is far beyond awful almost unimaginably so. So. as I said, there really wasn't much to discuss as to "What do you think of Trump?". We did spend a little time discussing just how things have gone so terribly wrong.

When things go wrong in my own life I find it both sensible and useful to ask myself if maybe some of my own choices were not so great. I strongly recommend that the Democratic Party leadership apply that line of thinking to themselves. If they think it over and come to the conclusion that their decisions have all been right in every way and the blame falls soley on the stupidity of the people, I think they are delusional.
Ken
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