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Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped? Bernie Sanders wants to know who owns America?

#9681 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2018-March-19, 15:22

So the ownership of Cambridge Analytica says they never talked to Russians, yet they met three times with people from Lukoil, the Russian oil giant? And these Russians oil producers just happened to want to know how to target voters in America? Nothing suspicious there. <_<

Quote

When the Russia question came up during a hearing at the British Parliament last month, Alexander Nix did not hesitate.

“We’ve never worked in Russia,” said Mr. Nix, head of a data consulting firm that advised the Trump campaign on targeting voters.

“As far as I’m aware, we’ve never worked for a Russian company,” Mr. Nix added. “We’ve never worked with a Russian organization in Russia or any other country, and we don’t have any relationship with Russia or Russian individuals.”

But Mr. Nix’s business did have some dealings with Russian interests, according to company documents and interviews.

Mr. Nix is a director of SCL Group, a British political and defense contractor, and chief executive of its American offshoot, Cambridge Analytica, which advised the Trump campaign. The firms’ employees, who often overlap, had contact in 2014 and 2015 with executives from Lukoil, the Russian oil giant.

Lukoil was interested in how data was used to target American voters, according to two former company insiders who said there were at least three meetings with Lukoil executives in London and Turkey. SCL and Lukoil denied that the talks were political in nature, and SCL also said there were no meetings in London

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
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#9682 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2018-March-20, 05:38

From NYT Editorial Board:

Quote

Seeing someone stand up to a bully is cathartic. That feeling is magnified when the bully is the president of the United States and his abusive behavior cries out for a response from honorable people.

The problem is that a vast majority of the people in the best position to put weight behind such a response, Republicans in Congress, have kept silent.

So it’s understandable that many Americans delighted in the rare, remarkably aggressive display of anger directed at President Trump over the weekend by some of his favorite targets — the nation’s formerly highest-ranking law enforcement and intelligence officials — following Mr. Trump’s predictable gloating over the late-Friday-night firing of Andrew McCabe, the former deputy director of the F.B.I.

Mr. McCabe accused the president of waging an “ongoing war on the F.B.I.” and said his firing showed what happens when “people who are supposed to cherish and protect our institutions become instruments for damaging those institutions and people.” James Comey, whom Mr. Trump fired as F.B.I. director last May and continued to attack ever since, tweeted, in reference to his forthcoming book, that Americans would soon be able to “judge for themselves who is honorable and who is not.” And John Brennan, who ran the C.I.A. under President Barack Obama, simply unloaded on Mr. Trump: “When the full extent of your venality, moral turpitude, and political corruption becomes known, you will take your rightful place as a disgraced demagogue in the dustbin of history.”

Declarations like these may be important to make and gratifying to read, but they really shouldn’t be coming from those whose integrity depends on them remaining outside the political fray, even in these insane times. For starters, they make it easier for Mr. Trump and his defenders to argue, as they already do, that crucial witnesses in the investigation by the special counsel, Robert Mueller, into the Trump campaign’s possible ties to Russia are biased against the president. Mr. McCabe acknowledged this dynamic in an interview with The Times, describing his dismissal as “part of an effort to discredit me as a witness.” He’s right. But now that he has taken the bait and defended himself publicly — however understandable that is — he has fed that dynamic.

It’s not that Mr. Trump is more credible than these men; to the contrary, it’s hard to think of an American public figure right now with less credibility than the president, who boasted last week about lying to the Canadian prime minister. It’s that this is exactly how Mr. Trump likes it: He drags people down to his level, forcing them to choose between retaliation and silence.

Their decision wouldn’t be so hard if the G.O.P. leadership in Congress were not, as usual, morally absent. Cynical as ever, Mitch McConnell, the Senate majority leader, has said nothing in the face of the president’s degrading tweets and renewed attacks on the Mueller investigation. The House speaker, Paul Ryan, sent a spokeswoman out to issue a milquetoast defense of the special counsel. By keeping mum as Mr. Trump marauds across American democracy, they are forcing the targets of his attacks to defend themselves and also abetting Mr. Trump’s assault on the credibility of the F.B.I. and the Justice Department.

A handful of Republicans have spoken up — the usual suspects, like Senator Jeff Flake, who called the firing of Mr. Mueller “a massive red line that can’t be crossed,” and Senator Lindsey Graham, who repeated his warning to Mr. Trump that it would be “the beginning of the end of his presidency.” On Sunday, Representative Trey Gowdy, who knows a thing or two about long-running investigations, scolded Mr. Trump’s lawyer John Dowd for urging the shutdown of Mr. Mueller’s investigation. “If you have an innocent client, Mr. Dowd, act like it,” Mr. Gowdy said.

Republicans should be pushing back on Mr. Trump now in part to keep him from firing Mr. Mueller, a move that could strain our institutions past their breaking point.

Even better, they should pass legislation protecting Mr. Mueller from being fired without good cause. The need for such a law grows more urgent daily. In his weekend Twitter outburst, Mr. Trump for the first time targeted Mr. Mueller by name, and on Monday, The Times reported, he added to his legal team a lawyer who has argued on television that F.B.I. and Justice Department officials framed the president.

Meanwhile, Mr. Comey, Mr. McCabe and the others who face Mr. Trump’s taunts and provocations should remember the old warning about wrestling a pig. You only get covered in mud — and, besides, the pig likes it.

If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
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#9683 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2018-March-20, 07:43

View Posty66, on 2018-March-20, 05:38, said:

From NYT Editorial Board:

Meanwhile, Mr. Comey, Mr. McCabe and the others who face Mr. Trump's taunts and provocations should remember the old warning about wrestling a pig. You only get covered in mud — and, besides, the pig likes it.


I understand that thinking but in fact the pig has left them with no reasonable options.

Quote

"When the full extent of your venality, moral turpitude, and political corruption becomes known, you will take your rightful place as a disgraced demagogue in the dustbin of history."


Maybe this is down in the mud wrestling with the pig, but it is also a true statement.

Donald Trump has boasted that he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and not lose any votes. That is not quite accurate. There are some supporters who would stick with him but others have a line somewhere, and I think we will soon be seeing that this is so. Priebus, back when he was a Trumpie, said something about how winning solves a lot of problems. True enough, but it does not solve all problems. The next six months or so are going to be very significant.
Ken
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#9684 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2018-March-20, 11:57

Why do we have to keep hearing first about these phone calls from the Kremlin instead of the White House?

Quote

MOSCOW (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump phoned Russia's Vladimir Putin on Tuesday to congratulate him on his re-election and they discussed the possibility of a meeting, the Kremlin said

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
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#9685 User is offline   Al_U_Card 

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Posted 2018-March-20, 12:00

We are talking about the FBI run by that "saint" J.Edgar who gave us Cointelpro as well as his MLK and JFK (amomg others) blackmail as well as "no such thing as the Mafia......right?

Or the CIA that gave us those "extraordinary renditions", MK Ultra, etc.?

Draining the swamp ... remember? What fills in the blanks after remains to be seen. Protecting institutions is not what the revolution was fought for
The Grand Design, reflected in the face of Chaos...it's a fluke!
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#9686 User is offline   RedSpawn 

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Posted 2018-March-20, 12:38

View PostAl_U_Card, on 2018-March-20, 12:00, said:

We are talking about the FBI run by that "saint" J.Edgar who gave us Cointelpro as well as his MLK and JFK (amomg others) blackmail as well as "no such thing as the Mafia......right?

Or the CIA that gave us those "extraordinary renditions", MK Ultra, etc.?

Draining the swamp ... remember? What fills in the blanks after remains to be seen. Protecting institutions is not what the revolution was fought for

Sorry, but you aren't allowed to question the intelligence community's and the federal government's motives because their inherent sovereignty means we give them the benefit of the doubt even when they have shown corruption and flagrant disrespect of our laws and Constitution.

It's unthinkable that there could be a conspiracy in the FBI or Justice Department because these venerated institutions are assumed to be beyond reproach even when they are shown to knowingly violate the law for their own purposes.

(Sarcasm included)
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#9687 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2018-March-20, 13:50

View PostAl_U_Card, on 2018-March-20, 12:00, said:

We are talking about the FBI run by that "saint" J.Edgar who gave us Cointelpro as well as his MLK and JFK (amomg others) blackmail as well as "no such thing as the Mafia......right?

Or the CIA that gave us those "extraordinary renditions", MK Ultra, etc.?

Draining the swamp ... remember? What fills in the blanks after remains to be seen. Protecting institutions is not what the revolution was fought for


J. Edgar is still alive?
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
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#9688 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2018-March-20, 13:51

View PostRedSpawn, on 2018-March-20, 12:38, said:

Sorry, but you aren't allowed to question the intelligence community's and the federal government's motives because their inherent sovereignty means we give them the benefit of the doubt even when they have shown corruption and flagrant disrespect of our laws and Constitution.

It's unthinkable that there could be a conspiracy in the FBI or Justice Department because these venerated institutions are assumed to be beyond reproach even when they are shown to knowingly violate the law for their own purposes.

(Sarcasm included)


You do realize that the 'federal government' isn't a single entity, don't you? It is made up of thousands of individuals, each with a mouth, and with their own ideas.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
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#9689 User is offline   Al_U_Card 

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Posted 2018-March-20, 14:03

View PostWinstonm, on 2018-March-20, 13:50, said:

J. Edgar is still alive?

In thought if not in deed ... LOL
The Grand Design, reflected in the face of Chaos...it's a fluke!
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#9690 User is offline   Al_U_Card 

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Posted 2018-March-20, 14:08

View PostWinstonm, on 2018-March-20, 13:51, said:

You do realize that the 'federal government' isn't a single entity, don't you? It is made up of thousands of individuals, each with a mouth, and with their own ideas.

Really.... really?
The Grand Design, reflected in the face of Chaos...it's a fluke!
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#9691 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2018-March-20, 14:33

Do you guys really think it likely that something akin to a secret society controls the FBI and all the intelligence agencies to the degree that they could orchestrate an inter-presidential and inter-party attempt to discredit a president they could not have known would be elected?
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
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#9692 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2018-March-20, 15:29

View PostWinstonm, on 2018-March-20, 14:33, said:

Do you guys really think it likely that something akin to a secret society controls the FBI and all the intelligence agencies to the degree that they could orchestrate an inter-presidential and inter-party attempt to discredit a president they could not have known would be elected?


Sounds plausible to me.

Richard Cohen had a piece in WaPo today that you might find amusing in a Draculan sort of way.

Cohen

Highlights:

Quote

Daniels alleges she and Trump had an affair beginning in 2006. The president's lawyer and his press secretary allege that the allegations are not true. The lawyer, Michael Cohen, does admit to paying Daniels $130,000, apparently to keep her silent about an affair that, according to Cohen, did not happen. To do this, Cohen set up a private Delaware company and concocted false names for everyone involved — the allegation-maker and the allegation-denier. Only the name Delaware is legit.

and

Quote

The payment of $130,000 over an affair that did not happen did not deter Daniels. For one thing, no one could possibly believe Cohen paid a woman not to talk about a sexual interlude that did not happen. (What's the price for one that did happen?) I, for one, am understandably mortified that any lawyer named Cohen could be that stupid.


Of course I don't much care what Trump did or didn't do with the woman Kathleen Parker referred to as "Snowy or Windy or something" but lately I find myself humming a song .
Ken
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#9693 User is offline   Al_U_Card 

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Posted 2018-March-20, 16:19

View PostWinstonm, on 2018-March-20, 14:33, said:

Do you guys really think it likely that something akin to a secret society controls the FBI and all the intelligence agencies to the degree that they could orchestrate an inter-presidential and inter-party attempt to discredit a president they could not have known would be elected?

Might just be perspective. Once you use criminal (illegal) or unethical or immoral behavior to get the job done, shouldn't one be concerned about the type of job being done? If it is the rule of law or even fair and ethical behavior that must be upheld, wouldn't these agencies be above resorting to these tactics? If subordinates are doing what is necessary or even expected of them, then perhaps questions of integrity and righteousness of cause need to be examined.
No need to look for ring-leaders when the entire organization is essentially as corrupt as their targets. Appears to be part of the territory for some time now.
The Grand Design, reflected in the face of Chaos...it's a fluke!
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#9694 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2018-March-20, 17:08

View PostAl_U_Card, on 2018-March-20, 16:19, said:

Might just be perspective. Once you use criminal (illegal) or unethical or immoral behavior to get the job done, shouldn't one be concerned about the type of job being done? If it is the rule of law or even fair and ethical behavior that must be upheld, wouldn't these agencies be above resorting to these tactics? If subordinates are doing what is necessary or even expected of them, then perhaps questions of integrity and righteousness of cause need to be examined.
No need to look for ring-leaders when the entire organization is essentially as corrupt as their targets. Appears to be part of the territory for some time now.


Have you considered the entirety of your suggestion? That the CIA uses clandestine activities against foreign enemies is a far cry from being able to persuade enough people to do the same against American while everyone involved keeps it a secret - and that is just a single agency.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
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#9695 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2018-March-20, 17:50

You can't explain away this by simply claiming a desire to get Russia to co-operate to oust terrorists.

Quote

President Trump did not follow specific warnings from his national security advisers when he congratulated Russian President Vladi­mir Putin Tuesday on his reelection, including a section in his briefing materials in all-capital letters stating “DO NOT CONGRATULATE,” according to officials familiar with the call.

Trump also chose not to heed talking points from aides instructing him to condemn Putin about the recent poisoning of a former Russian spy in the United Kingdom with a powerful nerve agent, a case that both the British and U.S. governments have blamed on Moscow.

The president’s conversation with Putin, which Trump called a “very good call,” prompted fresh criticism of his muted tone toward one of the United States’s biggest geopolitical rivals amid the ongoing special counsel investigation into Russia’s election interference and the Trump campaign’s contacts with Russian officials.

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#9696 User is offline   RedSpawn 

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Posted 2018-March-20, 17:59

View PostWinstonm, on 2018-March-20, 13:50, said:

J. Edgar is still alive?

Agreed. J. Edgar Hoover is rather dated.

Let's focus on the former Director of the FBI, James Comey, and the lies his FBI agency told in reference to what records were available to the general public under the FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT for the clandestine LYNCH/CLINTON tarmac meeting in Phoenix, Arizona.

Source:
https://www.libertyh...tarmac-meeting/

Why would the FBI lie about the availability of records and evidence regarding this allegedly innocent meeting involving FBI agents, the head of the Department of Justice, and a Former President who is husband of the accused in the matter of an email server scandal?
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#9697 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2018-March-20, 19:17

Looks like Dr. Berg is correct that there is hope.

From Yahoo News:

Quote

Ralph Peters, a retired Lt. Col. for the army and until recently a Fox News strategic analyst, decided to leave his post at the station after finally having a moment of clarity.

Peters' departure was first reported by BuzzFeed News, which obtained a copy of an email announcing his departure and detailing his reasoning to his colleagues.

"Today, I feel that Fox News is assaulting our constitutional order and the rule of law, while fostering corrosive and unjustified paranoia among viewers," Peters wrote in the email. "Over my decade with Fox, I long was proud of the association. Now I am ashamed."

Peters continued by saying he thought that Fox News "degenerated from providing a legitimate and much-needed outlet for conservative voices to a mere propaganda machine for a destructive and ethically ruinous administration."

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
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#9698 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2018-March-20, 19:20

View PostRedSpawn, on 2018-March-20, 17:59, said:

Agreed. J. Edgar Hoover is rather dated.

Let's focus on the former Director of the FBI, James Comey, and the lies his FBI agency told in reference to what records were available to the general public under the FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT for the clandestine LYNCH/CLINTON tarmac meeting in Phoenix, Arizona.

Source:
https://www.libertyh...tarmac-meeting/

Why would the FBI lie about the availability of records and evidence regarding this allegedly innocent meeting involving FBI agents, the head of the Department of Justice, and a Former President who is husband of the accused in the matter of an email server scandal?


Check your sources: https://mediabiasfac...erty-headlines/
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#9699 User is offline   RedSpawn 

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Posted 2018-March-21, 05:31

View PostWinstonm, on 2018-March-20, 19:20, said:


https://aclj.org/exe...ent-accountable

Try this source....same problem with FBI and Department of Justice.
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#9700 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2018-March-21, 07:29

View PostRedSpawn, on 2018-March-21, 05:31, said:

https://aclj.org/exe...ent-accountable

Try this source....same problem with FBI and Department of Justice.


Here's what I found about your source.

Quote

American Center for Law and Justice
https://aclj.org/
Led by Jay Sekulow, ACLJ Chief Counsel, the American Center for Law and Justice (ACLJ) focuses on constitutional and human rights law worldwide. Based in Washington, D.C., with affiliated offices in Israel, Russia, Kenya, France, Pakistan, and Zimbabwe, the ACLJ is pro-life and dedicated to the ideal that religious ...


If this is what you read and believe, it is no wonder you are confused. I strongly suggest better sources and reading about how to unravel yourself for conspiratorial thinking.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
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