[Winstonm]

Quote

Although President Joe Biden was chosen by the vast majority of primary and caucus voters, and amassed more than 99% of the pledged delegates who will meet at the Democratic National Convention in mid-August, he has not been formally nominated. And since he has voluntarily dropped out of the race, delegates pledged to him are no longer obligated to vote for him.

It's hardly a "palace coup", whatever that is, when the change is made prior to the election of a candidate. Biden dediced to drop out. Yes, he has lost support of part of the party, and that played a part in his decision. Unlike a would-be autocrat, he listened and took the road less travelled.

[hrothgar]

shyams, on 2024-July-25, 03:59, said:

If this is not a palace coup, what is? They [Pelosi, Schumer, Jeffries] put him under such intense pressure that they were almost blackmailing him into submission.

Coup is a pejorative term
Its a deliberate attempt to shape the narrative and shut down rational discourse

Much as, say, describing certain types of bids as "destructive" is an attempt to shape the discussion.

I absolutely agree that the leadership of the Democratic Party continually ratcheted up pressure on Biden until he chose to resign. Much as, say, the leadership of the Republican Party visited Richard Nixon 50+ years ago and told him that they would not shield hi from the consequences of his criminal actions.

Neither of these was a coup.

In Biden's case, I think that the expression "Intervention" feels about right

The following might be useful reading

https://press.uchica.../bo5921600.html

Not nearly as applicable to the modern Republican Party, but apparently still true for the Dems...

[kenberg]

I certainly think "intervention" is a better description than "coup" but I think the basic question is"was it the right thing to do?". This gets a clear yes from me, I think the situation was clear enough that it should have been dome more quickly.

If we do get into what word to use: It is clear that many people wanted Biden to withdraw, good reasons were supplied for doing so, and Biden chose to do so. The last part, "Biden chose to do so", seems to disqualify it as a coup.


But, as I began, the key point was that it was the right thing to do.

[Al Phalpha]

Here is the Republican agenda:
1. SEAL THE BORDER, AND STOP THE MIGRANT INVASION 2. CARRY OUT THE LARGEST DEPORTATION OPERATION IN AMERICAN HISTORY 3. END INFLATION, AND MAKE AMERICA AFFORDABLE AGAIN 4. MAKE AMERICA THE DOMINANT ENERGY PRODUCER IN THE WORLD, BY FAR! 5. STOP OUTSOURCING, AND TURN THE UNITED STATES INTO A MANUFACTURING SUPERPOWER 6. LARGE TAX CUTS FOR WORKERS, AND NO TAX ON TIPS! 7. DEFEND OUR CONSTITUTION, OUR BILL OF RIGHTS, AND OUR FUNDAMENTAL FREEDOMS, INCLUDING FREEDOM OF SPEECH, FREEDOM OF RELIGION, AND THE RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS 8. PREVENT WORLD WAR THREE, RESTORE PEACE IN EUROPE AND IN THE MIDDLE EAST, AND BUILD A GREAT IRON DOME MISSILE DEFENSE SHIELD OVER OUR ENTIRE COUNTRY -- ALL MADE IN AMERICA 9. END THE WEAPONIZATION OF GOVERNMENT AGAINST THE AMERICAN PEOPLE 10. STOP THE MIGRANT CRIME EPIDEMIC, DEMOLISH THE FOREIGN DRUG CARTELS, CRUSH GANG VIOLENCE, AND LOCK UP VIOLENT OFFENDERS
p. 5

5 11. REBUILD OUR CITIES, INCLUDING WASHINGTON DC, MAKING THEM SAFE, CLEAN, AND BEAUTIFUL AGAIN. 12. STRENGTHEN AND MODERNIZE OUR MILITARY, MAKING IT, WITHOUT QUESTION, THE STRONGEST AND MOST POWERFUL IN THE WORLD 13. KEEP THE U.S. DOLLAR AS THE WORLD’S RESERVE CURRENCY 14. FIGHT FOR AND PROTECT SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE WITH NO CUTS, INCLUDING NO CHANGES TO THE RETIREMENT AGE 15. CANCEL THE ELECTRIC VEHICLE MANDATE AND CUT COSTLY AND BURDENSOME REGULATIONS 16. CUT FEDERAL FUNDING FOR ANY SCHOOL PUSHING CRITICAL RACE THEORY, RADICAL GENDER IDEOLOGY, AND OTHER INAPPROPRIATE RACIAL, SEXUAL, OR POLITICAL CONTENT ON OUR CHILDREN 17. KEEP MEN OUT OF WOMEN’S SPORTS 18. DEPORT PRO-HAMAS RADICALS AND MAKE OUR COLLEGE CAMPUSES SAFE AND PATRIOTIC AGAIN 19. SECURE OUR ELECTIONS, INCLUDING SAME DAY VOTING, VOTER IDENTIFICATION, PAPER BALLOTS, AND PROOF OF CITIZENSHIP 20. UNITE OUR COUNTRY BY BRINGING IT TO NEW AND RECORD LEVELS OF SUCCESS.

I haven't seen the Democrat agenda. I'd like to. Do any of you have a copy?

[Al Phalpha]

Here is the Republican agenda:
1. SEAL THE BORDER, AND STOP THE MIGRANT INVASION 2. CARRY OUT THE LARGEST DEPORTATION OPERATION IN AMERICAN HISTORY 3. END INFLATION, AND MAKE AMERICA AFFORDABLE AGAIN 4. MAKE AMERICA THE DOMINANT ENERGY PRODUCER IN THE WORLD, BY FAR! 5. STOP OUTSOURCING, AND TURN THE UNITED STATES INTO A MANUFACTURING SUPERPOWER 6. LARGE TAX CUTS FOR WORKERS, AND NO TAX ON TIPS! 7. DEFEND OUR CONSTITUTION, OUR BILL OF RIGHTS, AND OUR FUNDAMENTAL FREEDOMS, INCLUDING FREEDOM OF SPEECH, FREEDOM OF RELIGION, AND THE RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS 8. PREVENT WORLD WAR THREE, RESTORE PEACE IN EUROPE AND IN THE MIDDLE EAST, AND BUILD A GREAT IRON DOME MISSILE DEFENSE SHIELD OVER OUR ENTIRE COUNTRY -- ALL MADE IN AMERICA 9. END THE WEAPONIZATION OF GOVERNMENT AGAINST THE AMERICAN PEOPLE 10. STOP THE MIGRANT CRIME EPIDEMIC, DEMOLISH THE FOREIGN DRUG CARTELS, CRUSH GANG VIOLENCE, AND LOCK UP VIOLENT OFFENDERS
p. 5

5 11. REBUILD OUR CITIES, INCLUDING WASHINGTON DC, MAKING THEM SAFE, CLEAN, AND BEAUTIFUL AGAIN. 12. STRENGTHEN AND MODERNIZE OUR MILITARY, MAKING IT, WITHOUT QUESTION, THE STRONGEST AND MOST POWERFUL IN THE WORLD 13. KEEP THE U.S. DOLLAR AS THE WORLD’S RESERVE CURRENCY 14. FIGHT FOR AND PROTECT SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE WITH NO CUTS, INCLUDING NO CHANGES TO THE RETIREMENT AGE 15. CANCEL THE ELECTRIC VEHICLE MANDATE AND CUT COSTLY AND BURDENSOME REGULATIONS 16. CUT FEDERAL FUNDING FOR ANY SCHOOL PUSHING CRITICAL RACE THEORY, RADICAL GENDER IDEOLOGY, AND OTHER INAPPROPRIATE RACIAL, SEXUAL, OR POLITICAL CONTENT ON OUR CHILDREN 17. KEEP MEN OUT OF WOMEN’S SPORTS 18. DEPORT PRO-HAMAS RADICALS AND MAKE OUR COLLEGE CAMPUSES SAFE AND PATRIOTIC AGAIN 19. SECURE OUR ELECTIONS, INCLUDING SAME DAY VOTING, VOTER IDENTIFICATION, PAPER BALLOTS, AND PROOF OF CITIZENSHIP 20. UNITE OUR COUNTRY BY BRINGING IT TO NEW AND RECORD LEVELS OF SUCCESS.

I haven't seen the Democrat agenda. I'd like to. Do any of you have a copy?

[pilowsky]

See what happens when you engage with trolls.

[shyams]

hrothgar, on 2024-July-25, 12:53, said:

Coup is a pejorative term
Its a deliberate attempt to shape the narrative and shut down rational discourse

Much as, say, describing certain types of bids as "destructive" is an attempt to shape the discussion.

I absolutely agree that the leadership of the Democratic Party continually ratcheted up pressure on Biden until he chose to resign. Much as, say, the leadership of the Republican Party visited Richard Nixon 50+ years ago and told him that they would not shield hi from the consequences of his criminal actions.

Neither of these was a coup.

In Biden's case, I think that the expression "Intervention" feels about right

Noted and agreed. Obviously I did not mean to use as a pejorative, and I certainly did not mean to conjure up all sorts of horrible events that occurred in the history of various nations & empires when I used the phrase.

[johnu]

Al Phalpha, on 2024-July-25, 18:55, said:

Here is the Republican agenda:

You forgot to include:

#21- SOMEBODY BUY THE QOP A CAPSLOCK KEY

[johnu]

shyams, on 2024-July-25, 03:46, said:

Yawn, next.

Wow, strong response, I guess I underestimated you.

Since you think vote blue is such a bad idea (and I listed just a few reasons why it is a good idea), please enlighten everybody why vote red is such a good idea. You don't even have to spend more than a minute or so coming up with a response. You could just say "Ditto" to Al Phalpha's QOP manifesto, or just link to Project 2025.

[johnu]

Since there's been a lot of talk about Biden's mental health since the 1st debate (which is now moot), Convicted Felon Trump's mental health doesn't get nearly as much coverage. For those who have listened to excerpts from some of his rallies and media appearances, he's been making these strange references to Hannibal Lecter over and over again. Honestly, I can't figure out why he is talking about a fictional serial killer and cannibal.

This Youtube video had a reason https://www.youtube....h?v=MWT_tTZ1MpA which made some sense to me since it tied in with some other Trump dementia glitches that have been occurring the past year.

Now, can somebody explain his obsession with choosing how to die between death by shark attack, or death by electrocution.

[pilowsky]

johnu, on 2024-July-26, 05:24, said:

Since there's been a lot of talk about Biden's mental health since the 1st debate (which is now moot), Convicted Felon Trump's mental health doesn't get nearly as much coverage. For those who have listened to excerpts from some of his rallies and media appearances, he's been making these strange references to Hannibal Lecter over and over again. Honestly, I can't figure out why he is talking about a fictional serial killer and cannibal.

This Youtube video had a reason https://www.youtube....h?v=MWT_tTZ1MpA which made some sense to me since it tied in with some other Trump dementia glitches that have been occurring the past year.

Now, can somebody explain his obsession with choosing how to die between death by shark attack, or death by electrocution.

He's probably concerned about the effect on property values when the whales fly into the windmills.

[hrothgar]

Al Phalpha, on 2024-July-25, 18:55, said:

I haven't seen the Democrat agenda. I'd like to. Do any of you have a copy?

https://letmegooglet...+party+platform

[kenberg]

johnu, on 2024-July-26, 05:24, said:

Since there's been a lot of talk about Biden's mental health since the 1st debate (which is now moot), Convicted Felon Trump's mental health doesn't get nearly as much coverage. For those who have listened to excerpts from some of his rallies and media appearances, he's been making these strange references to Hannibal Lecter over and over again. Honestly, I can't figure out why he is talking about a fictional serial killer and cannibal.

This Youtube video had a reason https://www.youtube....h?v=MWT_tTZ1MpA which made some sense to me since it tied in with some other Trump dementia glitches that have been occurring the past year.

Now, can somebody explain his obsession with choosing how to die between death by shark attack, or death by electrocution.

A comparison I had not thought of:


Watching the debate I concluded Biden had some cognotive issues. A person needs medical training to diagnosis it in depth, but the fact that there was a problem was clear.

Watching Trump, it s clear he has gone around some bend. I have long thought that to be the case, but lately it hs gotten far worse. Again, I do not have the medical expertise to diagnose this exactly, but I see it as clear. His overall personality has always been such that I would not want him in charge of anythin that has an effect on me, but eight years ago I would have called him self-centered, egotistical, dishonest, probably several other things but over the last few months it has descended into serious weirdness.

I have said before that if Trump suddenly started supporting every policy idea that I agree with, I would still not vote for him and not want him in charge of anything. For me, the reasons for this are just as obvious, really a good deal more abovious, than my resaons for thniking Biden needed to drop his candidacy.

I realize there are people ready to follow him anywhere he says to go. This happens sometimes, I just don't get it.

[pilowsky]

kenberg, on 2024-July-26, 07:10, said:

A comparison I had not thought of:


Watching the debate I concluded Biden had some cognotive issues. A person needs medical training to diagnosis it in depth, but the fact that there was a problem was clear.

Watching Trump, it s clear he has gone around some bend. I have long thought that to be the case, but lately it hs gotten far worse. Again, I do not have the medical expertise to diagnose this exactly, but I see it as clear. His overall personality has always been such that I would not want him in charge of anythin that has an effect on me, but eight years ago I would have called him self-centered, egotistical, dishonest, probably several other things but over the last few months it has descended into serious weirdness.

I have said before that if Trump suddenly started supporting every policy idea that I agree with, I would still not vote for him and not want him in charge of anything. For me, the reasons for this are just as obvious, really a good deal more abovious, than my resaons for thniking Biden needed to drop his candidacy.

I realize there are people ready to follow him anywhere he says to go. This happens sometimes, I just don't get it.

Trump's problem may be that he's just completely incapable of rational thought.
Sure, he works things out from first principles, but the first principle is "How does it benefit me?" and the second principle is "When's lunch?".
Then he runs out and starts to worry about how many followers he has.
It must be exhausting.

[Al Phalpha]

johnu, on 2024-July-26, 00:39, said:

You forgot to include:

#21- SOMEBODY BUY THE QOP A CAPSLOCK KEY

I'm sorry for the ALL CAPS. I copied that excerpt and pasted it here not knowing that it would come out in ALL CAPS. So here I offer humbly my sincere apology for offending your sensitivities and a complete copy of the Republican platform mostly in lower-case letters. https://www.document...-party-platform

[Al Phalpha]

hrothgar, on 2024-July-26, 06:53, said:

https://letmegooglet...+party+platform

Thank you. Shortly after making that post I realized I had not Googled Democrat Party Platform. So I did. And found it. Thank you for your prompt reply.

[hrothgar]

Al Phalpha, on 2024-July-26, 17:43, said:

Thank you. Shortly after making that post I realized I had not Googled Democrat Party Platform. So I did. And found it. Thank you for your prompt reply.

Sorry. You misunderstand.

I wasn't trying to be helpful. I was pointing out that you are lazy and stupid.

[helene_t]

Best reason to vote for Harris is that we might then be able to close this thread. The turn it has taken recently reminds me why I stopped writing in the Water Cooler.

I might post a request for a partner for the Red Sea Festival in the Water Cooler, though, so that the bridge forums don't get contaminated with Middle-East-Politics nonsense.

[barmar]

kenberg, on 2024-July-24, 11:20, said:

OK, if some wish to stay, sure. I imagine you are right, some do. But surely my point was that there are far more people who would wish to immigrate to the USA than we are will accept. The conclusion then is that therre must be a way of deciding. Some will be admitted, some will be turned away, and I am pretty sure that the numbers are such that quite a large number will be turned away. Do you thnk it is or should be otherwise?

We can't really compare the situation at the southern border these days with those who arrived at Ellis Island like your father. These are not all ordinary immigrants just looking for a better life. Many of them are refugees fleeing brutal societies in South America. Some relatively simple quota policies can be used for normal immigrants, but refugees require special consideration and compassion. Ideally we should never turn away refugees, but that's not practical, either. At a minimum, we need to verify that they really are in danger in their home countries.

This is hard work and requires time and resources, but our immigration court system is woefully inadequate for the job.

[johnu]

barmar, on 2024-July-27, 19:41, said:

We can't really compare the situation at the southern border these days with those who arrived at Ellis Island like your father. These are not all ordinary immigrants just looking for a better life. Many of them are refugees fleeing brutal societies in South America. Some relatively simple quota policies can be used for normal immigrants, but refugees require special consideration and compassion. Ideally we should never turn away refugees, but that's not practical, either. At a minimum, we need to verify that they really are in danger in their home countries.

This is hard work and requires time and resources, but our immigration court system is woefully inadequate for the job.

This is not a new problem about what do do about asylum seekers. In the runup to WWII and after, the US refused entry to thousands of Jewish refugees trying to escape Nazi Germany. There's a story about one of the refugees who was discovered to be a Nazi spy, and his story was used as an excuse to keep out thousands of harmless refugees, but the refusal to take in refugees had started years before. The irony is that the US already had thousand of VIPs who were Nazi sympathizers or worse like Henry Ford and Charles Lindberg who had no restrictions in their daily lives.