[jerdonald]

BBO forum,

Couldn't figure how to make the hand layout at the top of my post
so I'll do it this way.

My hand as west:
S KJ65
H 63
D KQ64
C A72


Partner's hand:
A AQT74
H AKQ9854
D.
C Q

Bidding:
W N E S
1D P 1H P
1S P ?

What now?

4NT with a void is usually out, 3 or 4D might tend to show a big
hand with hearts and diamonds, a jump to 3S might work to start
on the way to small or large slam.

Any suggestions?

Jerry D.

[steve2005]

You need to set up a GF in ♠ - can do with 4th suit forcing
Then you need to use exclusion KC with a ♦ void.

[Stephen Tu]

It depends on agreements obviously. 3♠ would be OK if it were forcing, but a large majority of people play 3♠ as invitational NF these days. Though there is a small minority who think the old way with jumps forcing was better. 4♦ would be a splinter for most, so 4♦ followed by 5♦ exclusion RKC would work. Perhaps even 5♦ directly? Good hands with lots of hearts and diamonds should start with one of:
1. strong jump shift if available
2. forcing jump to 3d if available (but this like 3♠ is normally played invitational these days)
3. artificial game force (for most people, 2♣, 4th suit GF artificial; if you play something like xyz, 2♦ GF artificial)

If you aren't on firm ground of 4♦ being splinter, then you basically have to choose option [3], but with this hand then support spades instead of diamonds on the next round. You can then try 1d-1h-1s-2c!-2nt-3s-4c-5d! as exclusion.

If you don't play exclusion then you are out of luck for bidding grand without guessing, unless you play ace only initial cue bids rather than mixed cue bids (4♣ cue bid promising ace, rather than either ace or K) AND have firm extended understandings about Josephine aka grand slam force (5nt asking for grand with 2/3 top honors, and other responses guaranteeing ace or K of trumps).

[jerdonald]

BBO forum,

Steve2005 thanks for the reply.

I know 4th suit forcing and exclusion Blackwood but how do we continue
the bidding from this point?

Jerry D.

[hevnandhel]

1♦ 1♥ 1♠ 2♣! 2NT 3♠ 5♦! (5♠/whatever shows 2 non-♦A keycards for ♠s) 7♥/7♠

[phil_20686]

1) I don't like the style where you rebid 1S on these hands, it is playable, but its much easier for intermediate players to just rebid 1N when they are 11-14 and balanced, and then play a reasonable checkback structure to uncover their spade fit.
2) given the auction, the next step is 2C fsf followed by 3S, which is a gf raise in spades. Mostly likely partner will bid 2N and you will bid 3S and he should bid 4c as a cue as he has a pretty good hand on this sequence. Then you can bid 5d for exclusion kep cards, when partner has both just bid the grand.

[steve2005]

phil_20686, on 2015-November-11, 08:25, said:

1) I don't like the style where you rebid 1S on these hands, it is playable, but its much easier for intermediate players to just rebid 1N when they are 11-14 and balanced, and then play a reasonable checkback structure to uncover their spade fit.

This is a matter of style, some do some don't is not really a question of right or wrong,
But will point out if you going to end up in NT you may want responder to play it because of your club holding being non-positional.

[Lovera]

I like or it is right to bid 2♣ as fsf that, en passant, is a bidding solution i had not thinked correlated to my overcall (see the topic "Reverses" in General Bridge Discussion) of opp suit for this case of 6(+)/5 (that are always alive). Than: 1♦ 1♥ 1♠ 2♣! 2NT 3♠ and we have spade with agree trump. Now if let's consider to cue bid by W should be better diamond as new suit that make clear to be a cue (but also is true that 2♣ is art. too) but can be bidded as cue also a suit previously declared if this one is in your agreement/system. Now if let's consider this one you are preparing answer for conventional Bw for controls (much probable to succed-see my topic "Most it had been told .." in Expert class bridge) with 4♦(=cue with 1.st or 2.nd round c.) and E having 5 c.(=2A+1K) bids 4NT. The 5♦(=1A+1/2K) answer tells you A in club and K in spade with 11 sure tricks, impasse in spade and squeeze possibility if a King is in diamond (much probable). How to know it ? With 5NT bidding (to clear ambiguity but not for E that want to know what honor is in cue suit)-6♥(=K in cue with only a King aside) that you can convert because having heart as a second fit (there is a grand if J is in spade as here but is hard/riskious to know it in time to program bidding).

[Zelandakh]

Lovera, on 2015-November-12, 10:32, said:

E having 5 c.(=2A+1K) bids 4NT. The 5♦(=1A+1/2K) tells you A in club and K in spade

Does the ♦A exist in your deck? No doubt the answer is to be found in the other thread but it hasn't be worth the effort to decipher that for some time.

[Lovera]

Zelandakh, on 2015-November-12, 10:41, said:

Does the ♦A exist in your deck? No doubt the answer is to be found in the other thread but it hasn't be worth the effort to decipher that for some time.

Yes that ♦ A exist but in this case the answere is 6♦(=cue suit with A). About deciphretion, it maybe, but i have caught the occasion of this topic to explain now anything that can subsequently indicate in topic suggest, bye.

[Zelandakh]

Lovera, on 2015-November-12, 10:55, said:

Yes that ♦ A exist but in this case the answere is 6♦(=cue suit with A).

So 5♦ with a useful ace plus the king of trumps and 6♦ with an ace opposite the void and no trump king - sounds perfect.

[rmnka447]

After a 4SF or forcing jump in ♠, I think you end up bidding over 4 ♠ with the East ("Partner") hand.

1 ♦ - 1 ♥
1 ♠ - 2 ♣
2 NT - 3 ♠
4 ♠ - ?

or

1 ♦ - 1 ♥
1 ♠ - 3 ♠
4 ♠ - ?

seem likely auctions as West with a minimum hand is unlikely to cue 4 ♣. After 4 ♠, does a simple 5 ♦ bid become exclusion RKCB or is it just a cue towards 6 ♠? It seems more like a cue to me. So I'll continue with 5 ♦ followed by 6 ♥ which should highlight the importance of partner's ♣ A and ♠ K. I'm assuming partner is likely to just bid 5 ♠ over 5 ♦. If perchance partner cues 6 ♣ then 6 ♥ really suggests we're missing something for 7. Holding the ♠ K, partner ought to be able to recognize the issue and bid 7.

It could be that partner might not have either card. But with partner having 4 ♠ and the opponents a like number, it seems at least 50/50 for partner to have the K. If you add in the additional percentage when partner holds the ♣ A, slam seems like a pretty good probability. Even missing both cards, partner might have ♥ shortness or the ♥ J as an entry to finesse in ♠.

If partner does cue 4 ♣, then maybe a jump to 5 ♦ could be recognized as exclusion RKCB. Then a 5NT response showing 2 makes 7 easy to bid.

[phil_20686]

steve2005, on 2015-November-11, 11:13, said:

This is a matter of style, some do some don't is not really a question of right or wrong,
But will point out if you going to end up in NT you may want responder to play it because of your club holding being non-positional.

It is a matter of style, but your continuations need to be significantly richer after 1S if you also have to sort out real clubs from fake clubs, and most people already play pretty complete check back systems. It also makes it much easier to play club partscores when you are 5c4X. I realise that you are a quite a low level already, so you can of course recover from this, and lots of expert players do play this way, but I always recommend to intermediate players that they bid as naturally as possible, and it seem much more natural to me that 1x 1y 1z should promise more of x than z. It has lots of other implications that are quite subtle, like now, do you want to bid 2S on something like kxx xxx KTxxx Qx, I think the answer is probably yes if you know partner has an unbalanced hand, but bid 1NT if you think parter is balanced.

[Lovera]

Zelandakh, on 2015-November-12, 16:35, said:

So 5♦ with a useful ace plus the king of trumps and 6♦ with an ace opposite the void and no trump king - sounds perfect.

Hi Zelandakh. I had to remember that this Blackwood for controls i have told in the topic in Expert cl. bridge ask it in all suits but the cue one (here diamond). The partner hand composition allow to collecate easyly top honors indicated. With 5♦(=1A+1K here), excluding the diamond cue suit, we have the A in club and K in spade (at the moment). In this hand E has a void in diamond and wanting to know If W has Ace or King (plus ♣ A and ♠ K) in diamond bids 5NT : with K will be bidded a suit out cue whilest with A the cue suit or 6♦ in adjunction to (but here is not the case), bye.

[iandayre]

jerdonald, on 2015-November-10, 21:41, said:

BBO forum,

Steve2005 thanks for the reply.

I know 4th suit forcing and exclusion Blackwood but how do we continue
the bidding from this point?

Jerry D.

2C-2NT-3S-4C-4D seems easy enough. Even if partner signs off at 4S now, you know he liked his hand well enough to cuebid 4C over 3S. So I'll play him for the SK and bid 7S.

[ggwhiz]

iandayre, on 2015-November-17, 13:44, said:

2C-2NT-3S-4C-4D seems easy enough. Even if partner signs off at 4S now, you know he liked his hand well enough to cuebid 4C over 3S. So I'll play him for the SK and bid 7S.

You don't even need exclusion but the key is 2♣(gf) followed by 3♠, not a leap to game so it MUST get a club cue.

Now 5nt if you play a graded gsf the responses being 6♣ = Q or less (then you can ask for the queen) and 6♦ = 1 of the top 2. 6♥ where available would show 1 of the top 2 with extra length, not applicable here.