[eagles123]

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none vul imps i just thought this was quite an awkward hand

in spoilers what I did, crucify me if you like

Spoiler

I bid 3s, I felt the hand had way too much potential to just give up and was unprepared to bid 3d as if partner bid 3n I'm not happy

I feel possibly at vul I would just texas on this hand - is that pushing the "vul game bonus" too far?

Thanks

Eagles

[gwnn]

It is an awkward hand. Due to these hands some people play

1N-2C
2D/H-2S

As a 5-card invite. If partner rejects (2N), you can let them know the nature of your hand by rebidding 3D.

[gwnn]

If I don't play that, I think I just force to game. Or transfer and pass. Sorry, it's just awkward. Don't like pretending to have 6.

[apollo1201]

+1 for gwnn. It is so much safer when you have S's. Obviously on the Stayman if opener answers 2S, the 9-card fit plus singleton make you worth 4S.

[Fluffy]

I would show my diamonds, if partner rebids 3NT I Will insist in playing diamonds with 4♦. Since we are a passed hand I hope partner is not afraid of biddinf 4♠ over 4♦ with ♠Hx as we can't be on slam zone.

[kuhchung]

gwnn, on 2015-December-02, 16:28, said:

It is an awkward hand. Due to these hands some people play

1N-2C
2D/H-2S

As a 5-card invite. If partner rejects (2N), you can let them know the nature of your hand by rebidding 3D.

Don't want to derail, but will partner often bid 2N with a reject? I always just pass and play the 5-2 or whatever.

[gwnn]

Honestly, I'm not sure. I played this treatment for a while but it didn't come up enough times for me to gather personal experience. It is a nice extra for opener's pov that responder will bid 3m on 5-4 or 5-5 so maybe it's a good idea to reject with 2N at least some of the time. Yea I'm copping out.

[nige1]

eagles123, on 2015-December-02, 16:09, said:

none vul imps i just thought this was quite an awkward hand
in spoilers what I did, crucify me if you like

Spoiler

I bid 3s, I felt the hand had way too much potential to just give up and was unprepared to bid 3d as if partner bid 3n I'm not happy
I feel possibly at vul I would just texas on this hand - is that pushing the "vul game bonus" too far?

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I rank

• 4♥ = Transfer. Fast approach migh escape a double.
• 2♣ = Constructive Stayman. I like Gwnn's approach of raising ♠ otherwise bidding 2♠.
• 2♥ = Transfer. Continuing with 3♠ (invitational).
• 2♥ = Transfer. Intending to Pass unless partner super-accepts.
• 2♥ = Transfer. Continuing with 3♦ and 4♦ over 3N (Like Fluffy)

[steve2005]

gwnn, on 2015-December-02, 16:28, said:

It is an awkward hand. Due to these hands some people play

1N-2C
2D/H-2S

As a 5-card invite. If partner rejects (2N), you can let them know the nature of your hand by rebidding 3D.

Yes this solves a common problem.
I think standard meaning would be 5S4H INV. Your probably playing in NT not a 4-3H. if no spade fit.
So unless knowing p has 4H is gonna propel you to game (unlikely) just a 5S invite is a better use.

[all loomis]

2c followed by 2s seems natural and effective. i train my partners to pass 2s with dbltn and min.

[WesleyC]

If you choose to force to game on this hand (which I agree with), not exploring for a diamonds along the way is surely a mistake.

If partner has 4 or 5 diamonds and a small doubleton spade then diamonds will almost always be the best strain. And if partner does have ♠Qx (or ♠JT), you should still be able to end up in 4♠.

The main feature of the hand that suggests diamonds might play well is the ♠AKxxx. If you made the hand have ♠KQT9x instead (and added another card outside) then i'd have more sympathy for choosing not to show diamonds.

[antonylee]

kuhchung, on 2015-December-02, 16:40, said:

Don't want to derail, but will partner often bid 2N with a reject? I always just pass and play the 5-2 or whatever.

2C-then-2S promises a side suit for me (... could be hearts though) so I guess 2N could promise support for both minors, typically 2=3=4=4?

[helene_t]

kuhchung, on 2015-December-02, 16:40, said:

Don't want to derail, but will partner often bid 2N with a reject? I always just pass and play the 5-2 or whatever.

Yeah, if you play transfer followed by 2NT as invitational with a 5-card suit then the Stayman route is weaker and opener must pass with a 17 count an no support.

But you can also play that the stayman route covers all invites so transfer followed by 2NT is some kind of fancy forcing bid.

[lorserker]

On this hand you could go down in 2S at worst. At best, slam is in the cards. Good luck finding the right bid!
When i dont know what to do i pass
But im not happy about it.

[nullve]

I play 2N as lebensohl over 1N-2M-1; 2M, showing precisely this type of hand (with either minor) if weak. (With a weaker hand, I'd just pass 2M, of course.)

[gwnn]

lorserker, on 2015-December-03, 02:22, said:

On this hand you could go down in 2S at worst. At best, slam is in the cards. Good luck finding the right bid!
When i dont know what to do i pass
But im not happy about it.

I prefer "when I don't know what to pass, I bid."

PS nice to see you again, p

[Jinksy]

gwnn, on 2015-December-02, 16:49, said:

Honestly, I'm not sure. I played this treatment for a while but it didn't come up enough times for me to gather personal experience. It is a nice extra for opener's pov that responder will bid 3m on 5-4 or 5-5 so maybe it's a good idea to reject with 2N at least some of the time. Yea I'm copping out.

I bid a few with myself playing a weak NT, and the impression I got is that opener should just pass when rejecting, since often 2N was off with 2S making even on a 5-2. That said, I wasn't paying much attention to the possibility of playing in a second suit.

[jodepp]

Al Roth proposed that 3♦ here after the transfer be invitational only. That solves the problem, but you need to work out how you wish to force as responder.

[dboxley]

eagles123, on 2015-December-02, 16:09, said:

---

none vul imps i just thought this was quite an awkward hand

in spoilers what I did, crucify me if you like

Spoiler

I bid 3s, I felt the hand had way too much potential to just give up and was unprepared to bid 3d as if partner bid 3n I'm not happy

I feel possibly at vul I would just texas on this hand - is that pushing the "vul game bonus" too far?

Thanks

Eagles

If you play, as you should, that partner's 2S bid denies 4 spades then I would pass.

[kenrexford]

A nice continuation after 2C, then 2S. Opener bids 2NT as an asking bid (pass with no fit). Responder next:

3C with clubs. 3D then asks for stiff.
3D with diamonds, short clubs.
3S with diamonds, short hearts.
3H with 5S/4H.

How nice to make an invite showing 5S, short heart, and diamonds secondary eith this hand, eh?