Zelandakh, on 2016-February-18, 08:35, said:
This reasoning highlights one of the differences one sometimes sees between American and European thinking. For me, if I have no fit for a minor, no extra heart length and something in spades I can bid 3NT. So 3♠ would tend to deny something in spades in the first instance. It is a matter of philosophy. Presumably in your methods, a 3♦ rebid would not guarantee a diamond fit but might be made on, say, a 3523 hand with ♠xxx, thus making it more of a grope than a fit bid. That makes perfect sense but perhaps an alternative that might follow from that is for 3♠ to show a full diamond fit. That is possibly better than either natural method but also probably not possible for most pairs. In any case, bidding 3♠ and then taking 3NT out has to show something unusual, either in terms of slam-suitability, shape or controls held.
Probably the first ting is that there are many auctions that I have not thoroughly thought out.
That being siad, let me say, as best I recal, what I thought at various points.It changed radically as the auction progressed.
1D-1H-3C-3S
I did not, at this point, take this as a serious effort to play in spades. It allowed me to bid 3NT if I so desired. and i did. I expected he "probably' had something in spades, mostly because he had to have something somewhere. If he had, say, xx in spades surely he had a better bid than 3S. So 3NT seems reasonable.
Oh. And when he bids 3S I assume he has five hearts. If he has only four hearts and does not fit either of my minors, it is hard to see why he would not simply bid 3NT. Unless his hand is too big for that, in which case he will tell me soon.
Ok, I bid 3NT, he bids 4H. Say what? This is new information so I will revise my thoughts. Now, yes, I figure I am being asked to choose between hearts and spades. He seems to like hearts, and if he only liked hearts, I would expect 3H over 3C. So I bid 4S.
It isn't that I thought my first opinion was in some way wrong systemically. At the time of the 3S, 3NT seemed right. When he then pulls to 4H, I think again.
So far, this seems normal to me.
But now he pulls 4S to 5H. Here I can see two views. I took it as roughly what he had. The spade ace nd a slam try in hearts. I was simply worried about the hearts. I expect good hearts, but still I have only the deuce. My purpose in posting this hand was (1) I thought it interesting and (2) I was satisfied with my bidding up until this point but I was 9and somewhat still am) uncertain as to whether I should have raised 5H to 6H. My hand is a bit better than needed for the jump shift. Not much, but some. But there is that one measly heart spot. I thin if the stiff were the j I would have bid 6. Maybe with the Ten.
But there has been a suggestion that 5H over 4S says "Glad to hear about the spade fit, i have the ace of hearts, can we make 8s?". This never occurred to me, and thinking about it now I still prefer my view that it was a slam try in hearts holding good hearts and the spade ace, but I can see the point of this other view.
When I can, I try to look ahead. But here, over 3S I just thought 3NT was most logical, after the pull to 4H I thought showing my preference to spades the most logical, and after 5H I thought I was to pass or bid 6H. So we were largely in sync. I do think that 5H over 3NT would have been better. With that heart suit a heart slam must be fairly likely. and 5H would, I think, have encouraged me to bid 6H unless I was really pessimistic.
You asked about what 3D over 3C would be. I would expect something of a diamond fit but not such that diamonds are firmly established as trump. For example, over 3D I, as opener, would bid 3H holding three hearts, and expect partner to take it as such. I also might bid 3NT over 3D with some hands. I would think of 3D as maybe we should play in diamonds, but let's not sign it in blood yet.
Added: Maybe the last thought of this post should refer back to the first. Even when I played more than I do now, and when I had a regular partner with whom I had extended discussions and agreements, this auction was not discussed in detail. When I say tha after partner's 3S I think he has five hearts, that does not mean that with some partners we have discussed it,. It doesn't even mean that I am sure I am right. It simply seems reasonable that after 1D-1H-3C partner might hope to play n hearts but not have the suit for a 3H bid and so would bid 3S to see what I do. Then, as we go forward, I update my opinion.
No doubt this sometimes leads to confusion. Bridge requires a sense of humor, an appreciation for the absurd.
Help
I do not have any problem with the logic of your approach and the end result is getting to a sensible spot on what was a difficult hand for a pick-up partnership.