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Preempt a preempt?

#1 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2021-April-10, 18:14




IMP. E/W Vulnerable

Have E/W both lost their minds?
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#2 User is online   mikeh 

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Posted 2021-April-10, 18:17

View Postjillybean, on 2021-April-10, 18:14, said:



IMP. E/W Vulnerable

Have E/W both lost their minds?

Hard to say

In a vacuum, the odds of any pair having lost their minds are probably pretty good, but it would help if you gave us an auction
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#3 User is offline   TylerE 

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Posted 2021-April-10, 18:19

E hand is an auto 2, and it ain't a preeempt. I'd open that hand 1 at any vuln and form of scoring.

The 3N bid is just silly. No fit, no stopper, no tricks. Just bid 3 like a not-crazy person.
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#4 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2021-April-10, 18:25

View Postmikeh, on 2021-April-10, 18:17, said:

Hard to say

In a vacuum, the odds of any pair having lost their minds are probably pretty good, but it would help if you gave us an auction


:) fixed, don't know what happened there.
Searching for your own mistakes is the only way to learn this game. - Fluffy

And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. - MikeH

SLOW DOWN! This is not a speedball :)
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#5 User is online   mikeh 

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Posted 2021-April-10, 18:46

View PostTylerE, on 2021-April-10, 18:19, said:

E hand is an auto 2, and it ain't a preeempt. I'd open that hand 1 at any vuln and form of scoring.

The 3N bid is just silly. No fit, no stopper, no tricks. Just bid 3 like a not-crazy person.

Are you sure you want to bid 3D? Frankly, I think the cuebid on this hand is crazier than the borderline insane 3N.

I do agree that eastís 2S is clear. West has a tough decision. Passing could be very wrong, but the odds that we can make game must be pretty low, and itís not as if game is never being doubled. Much as I hate to miss vulnerable games at imps, this looks like a pass to me, with 2N a close second


Over 2N, east bids 3S and they play it there.
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#6 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2021-April-10, 19:05

Ah, very sorry. I have lost my mind. When I redid the auction, I used the wrong bids, if that changes anything.



N/S Play "Multi", so 3 is their preempt.
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#7 User is online   mikeh 

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Posted 2021-April-10, 20:12

View Postjillybean, on 2021-April-10, 19:05, said:

Ah, very sorry. I have lost my mind. When I redid the auction, I used the wrong bids, if that changes anything.



N/S Play "Multi", so 3 is their preempt.

That changes everything

East still has to bid 3S, but now heís uncomfortable doing so. However, the hand with short diamonds has to be allowed/expected to stretch.

Now west is really stuck. I think one could argue for 4S, on the basis that east will often have 6+ spades, or (my choice). 3N, expecting/hoping partner has a heart card. Passing would be exceedingly pessimistic. Why canít east have AKJ10xx Kxx x Axx, where even on a heart lead, 3N has good chances.

Preempts work. 3D is truly hideous and I donít think Iíd find it even tho we play very aggressive fav vul preempts...Iíd want the diamond 9🥴
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#8 User is offline   eagles123 

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Posted 2021-April-11, 02:52

Fortunately you weren't doubled!
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#9 User is offline   nullve 

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Posted 2021-April-11, 05:44

View Postmikeh, on 2021-April-10, 18:46, said:

I do agree that eastís 2S is clear. West has a tough decision. Passing could be very wrong, but the odds that we can make game must be pretty low, and itís not as if game is never being doubled. Much as I hate to miss vulnerable games at imps, this looks like a pass to me, with 2N a close second

View Postmikeh, on 2021-April-10, 20:12, said:

That changes everything

East still has to bid 3S, but now heís uncomfortable doing so. However, the hand with short diamonds has to be allowed/expected to stretch.

Now west is really stuck. I think one could argue for 4S, on the basis that east will often have 6+ spades, or (my choice). 3N, expecting/hoping partner has a heart card. Passing would be exceedingly pessimistic. Why canít east have AKJ10xx Kxx x Axx, where even on a heart lead, 3N has good chances.


3?
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#10 User is online   mikeh 

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Posted 2021-April-11, 08:05

View Postnullve, on 2021-April-11, 05:44, said:


3?

Read the actual problem
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#11 User is offline   nullve 

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Posted 2021-April-11, 08:12

View Postmikeh, on 2021-April-11, 08:05, said:

Read the actual problem

?

I thought there had to be a reason why

View Postmikeh, on 2021-April-10, 20:12, said:

Passing would be exceedingly pessimistic. Why canít east have AKJ10xx Kxx x Axx, where even on a heart lead, 3N has good chances.

doesn't apply when advancing a 2 overcall of a Weak 2
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#12 User is online   mikeh 

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Posted 2021-April-11, 08:34

View Postnullve, on 2021-April-11, 08:12, said:

?

I guess you didnít, lol. Try again.
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#13 User is offline   nullve 

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Posted 2021-April-11, 08:37

View Postmikeh, on 2021-April-11, 08:34, said:

I guess you didnít, lol. Try again.

No.
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#14 User is online   mikeh 

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Posted 2021-April-11, 09:08

View Postnullve, on 2021-April-11, 08:37, said:

No.

Editing a prior post to make it appear that you wrote something, to which I replied, that you didnít is misleading, but if it makes you feel better, go for it.

But the problem remains. You criticize my post without (it seems to me) understanding it.

Of course partner could have a good hand to overcall 2D with 2S. Iíd put AKJxxx Kxx x Axx at the extreme high end of the range: I think itís close between double, then spades, an immediate 3S or 2S.

Thatís why I suggested that westís decision over 2S was very close. Were west to bid 2N, obviously east is bidding game with that hand.

If you think that west should bid 2N in the original post, I wouldnít feel strongly about it...I might well do it in real life, and I said I thought it was close.

3S over 3D has a higher minimum and correspondingly a higher maximum, which is why I think west has a 3N call. I also think that heíd like to be able to make an invitational bid, but he canít, for obvious reasons.

Of course, if you think the overcall of 2S over 2D is exactly the same as an overcall of 3S over 3D, then thereís not much to discuss, lol.
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#15 User is offline   nullve 

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Posted 2021-April-11, 10:15

View Postmikeh, on 2021-April-11, 09:08, said:

Editing a prior post to make it appear that you wrote something, to which I replied, that you didn’t is misleading, but if it makes you feel better, go for it.

I edited it because I wanted to clarify something . If that's bad style, then I'm sorry.

View Postmikeh, on 2021-April-11, 09:08, said:

But the problem remains. You criticize my post without (it seems to me) understanding it.

I didn't criticise it at all. I read your two first posts as implying that you would not overcall 2 on AKJxxx Kxx x Axx. That's why asked if you would overcall 3.

View Postmikeh, on 2021-April-11, 09:08, said:

If you think that west should bid 2N in the original post, I wouldn’t feel strongly about it...I might well do it in real life, and I said I thought it was close.

I actually think passing 2 with that hand is winning bridge.

View Postmikeh, on 2021-April-11, 09:08, said:

Of course, if you think the overcall of 2S over 2D is exactly the same as an overcall of 3S over 3D, then there’s not much to discuss, lol.

I don't.

This post has been edited by nullve: 2021-April-11, 12:37

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#16 User is offline   ThomasRush 

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Posted 2021-April-11, 22:22

View Postnullve, on 2021-April-11, 10:15, said:

I edited it because I wanted to clarify something . If that's bad style, then I'm sorry.

As a suggestion, if you're going to edit a post other than for corrections like grammar or spelling that don't change the meaning, make sure it's clear the old text (if any) you're removing, and exactly what is correction and/or addition.
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