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Is Robot Programming Continuously Improved?

#1 User is offline   msheald 

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Posted 2021-October-21, 05:10

Hello! Just curious about robot programming. Given the many comments about what might be considered "poor play" by the robots, are they continually improved, both in play and in bidding, or is what you see what you get into the future?

I often play the free robot games just to get started for a few minutes in the morning (I play pad games with people), and the basic robots seem to make basic mistakes from time to time. On a recent hand, I overcalled a bid at 1 spade with A-K-x-x-x and the opponents were at 4 hearts after routine bidding and passes by my partner. On the opening lead, rather than leading from its doubleton spade to my A-K, my robot partner led top of nothing from a minor.

Play like this does not seem unusual for the basic robots, and it makes me leery of paying money to play with the advanced robots.

Do the robots undergo continuous program improvement or is WYSIWYG?

Are the advanced robots really much better than the basic robots so that such bidding/play concerns occur much less frequently?

Thank you and best regards.

Mike
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#2 User is offline   wbartley 

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Posted 2021-October-21, 09:35

The robot bidding changes once in a while. Whether it is improving is debatable.
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#3 User is offline   smerriman 

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Posted 2021-October-21, 12:57

The last update to GIB bidding was made in February 2019.

The last known update to GIB play logic was made in December 2014.. where GIB was changed to force it to lead an ace against 7NT :)

Leading partner's suit is never something that a robot can / should be forced to do though. That, like most other play logic, is done by simulating hands and figuring out what the best lead is double dummy (on average, in the long run). That's often not the suit you bid, even though it relies on you defending double dummy from then on to be successful.
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#4 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2021-October-21, 14:58

View Postsmerriman, on 2021-October-21, 12:57, said:

The last known update to GIB play logic was made in December 2014.. where GIB was changed to force it to lead an ace against 7NT :)


Who knew that leading an ace against 7NT worked better than leading 4th best from the ace? :lol:
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#5 User is offline   msheald 

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Posted 2021-October-23, 05:16

Robot bids are always puzzling, and I am not skilled enough to figure them out.

Today, I opened 1NT. Robot replied 2 clubs Stayman, and I replied 2D since I did not have a 4-card major. Robot replied 2 hearts. I raised to 4 hearts, figuring robot with 5-card heart suit and 4 card spade suit (with a probable side singleton or void). It turned out the reverse (with a club void).

I'm not sure why robot gambled on, at best, 4-3 heart suit when spades might have been 5-3. All teaching I've read indicates that robot was supposed to bid 5-cad spade suit and not 4-card heart suit. Also, in my experience, even if I only had 2 spades, a 5-2 suit plays better than a 4-3 suit, so a spade bid would have been better than a heart bid in any case.

My hat's off to those who have figured out the vagaries of robot play. For me, as an intermediate player, I do not have the time or energy to figure out the robot system and a human system. So, I'll keep playing the free games since they are fun, but I'll hold on the money robot games till the robots are improved so that the bidding and play more closely resembles human play. Best regards.

Mike
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#6 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2021-October-23, 12:11

No.
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
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#7 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2021-October-23, 12:55

View Postmsheald, on 2021-October-23, 05:16, said:

Robot bids are always puzzling, and I am not skilled enough to figure them out.

Today, I opened 1NT. Robot replied 2 clubs Stayman, and I replied 2D since I did not have a 4-card major. Robot replied 2 hearts. I raised to 4 hearts, figuring robot with 5-card heart suit and 4 card spade suit (with a probable side singleton or void). It turned out the reverse (with a club void).

I'm not sure why robot gambled on, at best, 4-3 heart suit when spades might have been 5-3. All teaching I've read indicates that robot was supposed to bid 5-cad spade suit and not 4-card heart suit. Also, in my experience, even if I only had 2 spades, a 5-2 suit plays better than a 4-3 suit, so a spade bid would have been better than a heart bid in any case.

My hat's off to those who have figured out the vagaries of robot play. For me, as an intermediate player, I do not have the time or energy to figure out the robot system and a human system. So, I'll keep playing the free games since they are fun, but I'll hold on the money robot games till the robots are improved so that the bidding and play more closely resembles human play.


Your post is eminently sensible, but FWIW I would guess 2 hearts to show majors 4+ 4+ and a very weak hand: what would 3 hearts show for you if not 5-4?
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#8 User is offline   smerriman 

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Posted 2021-October-23, 13:11

Are you 100% sure that the robot bid 2 and not 3?

To GIB, 2 is invitational with 5 hearts and 4 spades.

But 3 is game forcing with 5 spades and 4 hearts (the Smolen convention). This is very standard and what I would expect without discussion with a human partner.

In both cases you can see the definition before you choose how to respond.
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#9 User is offline   msheald 

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Posted 2021-October-25, 04:03

View Postsmerriman, on 2021-October-23, 13:11, said:

Are you 100% sure that the robot bid 2 and not 3?

To GIB, 2 is invitational with 5 hearts and 4 spades.

But 3 is game forcing with 5 spades and 4 hearts (the Smolen convention). This is very standard and what I would expect without discussion with a human partner.

In both cases you can see the definition before you choose how to respond.




You are right! It was Smolen! I need to be more careful with robot bids to check them (though I've been surprised that the descriptions may not match the actual hands). Best regards.

Mike
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