[sandiem]

Is it possible for someone to sign in as invisible under another account and self kibitz an event without anyone knowing?
If this is possible, is there anyway of stopping this while still allowing others to watch?

[barmar]

If the event allows kibitzing, then there's nothing preventing self-kibitzing. What could we do to stop it?

[diana_eva]

sandiem, on 2022-February-16, 08:53, said:

Is it possible for someone to sign in as invisible under another account and self kibitz an event without anyone knowing?
If this is possible, is there anyway of stopping this while still allowing others to watch?

The kibitzers are visible to the table and to the TD. Even if someone is logged on invisible, you can see them in the list of kibitzers.

What can be done to stop it: like Barry says, if the organizers want to ensure security, they should not allow kibitzers. If it's a social game for fun, then it's enjoyable to allow kibs. so it really depends on the type of game.

ACBL and BBO "serious" games never allow kibitzers. The social ones or teaching sessions always allow.

[Bri_and]

diana_eva, on 2022-February-19, 06:47, said:

The kibitzers are visible to the table and to the TD. Even if someone is logged on invisible, you can see them in the list of kibitzers. What can be done to stop it: like Barry says, if the organizers want to ensure security, they should not allow kibitzers. If it's a social game for fun, then it's enjoyable to allow kibs. so it really depends on the type of game. ACBL and BBO "serious" games never allow kibitzers. The social ones or teaching sessions always allow.

A useful start would be to have the list of kibitzers available to each organiser.

Perhaps making that list public (along with results ?) may deter a few who are kibitzing for self gain.

[diana_eva]

Bri_and, on 2022-February-21, 10:36, said:

A useful start would be to have the list of kibitzers available to each organiser.

Perhaps making that list public (along with results ?) may deter a few who are kibitzing for self gain.

The list is visible to the organizer. There are no invisible kibitzers.

All kibitzers are visible unless they are "yellows", which are either BBO staff or people working for the various bridge organizations who organize games on BBO (for example ACBL helpers for virtual acbl club managers).

[pescetom]

diana_eva, on 2022-February-23, 12:17, said:

The list is visible to the organizer.

I think his idea of making it visible to all has some merit.
I understand that there may be privacy issues, as for play, but I suggest kibitzing should be at least as visible as play in myhands.

[smerriman]

pescetom, on 2022-February-23, 15:55, said:

I think his idea of making it visible to all has some merit.

Isn't it already? Anyone can view the list of kibitzers at any table, as Diana already mentioned above.

[pescetom]

smerriman, on 2022-February-23, 16:03, said:

Isn't it already? Anyone can view the list of kibitzers at any table, as Diana already mentioned above.

Can I view the list of kibitzers at the table of the pair who won tournament X yesterday?
I can view their results and play in myhands.

[johnu]

diana_eva, on 2022-February-23, 12:17, said:

The list is visible to the organizer. There are no invisible kibitzers.

All kibitzers are visible unless they are "yellows", which are either BBO staff or people working for the various bridge organizations who organize games on BBO (for example ACBL helpers for virtual acbl club managers).

Are the yellows and other organizers "captured" as kibitzing particular tables? There was just a case where a top Italian director/official was caught sneaking into the duplication room at a live event, not the same thing as nefarious kibitzing, but comparable.

[diana_eva]

johnu, on 2022-February-23, 18:36, said:

Are the yellows and other organizers "captured" as kibitzing particular tables? There was just a case where a top Italian director/official was caught sneaking into the duplication room at a live event, not the same thing as nefarious kibitzing, but comparable.

It is the bridge organization's responsibility to ensure its employees are reliable... If we find someone is misusing their extra permissions, we take measures but it's not our responsibility to supervise other orgs' employees.

[johnu]

diana_eva, on 2022-February-24, 15:30, said:

It is the bridge organization's responsibility to ensure its employees are reliable... If we find someone is misusing their extra permissions, we take measures but it's not our responsibility to supervise other orgs' employees.

All well and good, but why are yellow and other "officials" kibitzing at all and not being recorded as kibitzing? It would be closing a loophole to just show everybody who is kibitzing at all times. If they wanted to be anonymous, they could log in anonymously.

[barmar]

pescetom, on 2022-February-23, 16:59, said:

Can I view the list of kibitzers at the table of the pair who won tournament X yesterday?
I can view their results and play in myhands.

No, there's no kibitzer history. You can only see the kibitzers at the current moment.

[barmar]

johnu, on 2022-February-24, 19:31, said:

All well and good, but why are yellow and other "officials" kibitzing at all and not being recorded as kibitzing? It would be closing a loophole to just show everybody who is kibitzing at all times. If they wanted to be anonymous, they could log in anonymously.

I think the intent of this may be to allow monitoring without the players knowing. If you're trying to catch cheaters, you don't want them to be warned that they're under surveillance.

[johnu]

barmar, on 2022-February-25, 14:39, said:

I think the intent of this may be to allow monitoring without the players knowing. If you're trying to catch cheaters, you don't want them to be warned that they're under surveillance.

I thought BBO already had access to the IP addresses, bid and play records, timing of bids and plays, alerts, and chat without kibitzing.

[Bri_and]

barmar, on 2022-February-25, 14:36, said:

No, there's no kibitzer history. You can only see the kibitzers at the current moment.

There is an option to set "allow silent kibitzing" - what does this actually allow ? (not mentioned in my club managers manual)

[smerriman]

Bri_and, on 2022-February-28, 13:52, said:

There is an option to set "allow silent kibitzing" - what does this actually allow ? (not mentioned in my club managers manual)

+silentspecs+ means kibitzers can only chat to each other privately, rather than it going to the table.