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Overcalling a Weak NT Can you bid & play to make 6?

#1 User is offline   mw64ahw 

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Posted 2022-April-27, 04:37

Here's one the simulator managed to bid 6 on, but we failed F2F to bid game.
The consolation was that I found the correct line to make 6


Q led

Spoiler

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#2 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2022-April-27, 06:26

I'm not sure how good game actually is (diamond lead may be worse), but you probably want to be in it, slam is terrible.

I don't think we get to game unless E takes a flying punt.
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#3 User is offline   mycroft 

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Posted 2022-April-27, 09:21

Well, we'll start (1NT)-2 (majors)-2 (definite preference); 3. Interesting to see whether two aces and a ruff and knowing where the points are feels like enough.

Yeah, 6 is right out. Never mind "Thanks for giving us the extra entry to responder we didn't have."
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#4 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2022-April-27, 10:37


mw64ahw 'Here's one the simulator managed to bid 6 on, but we failed F2F to bid game.
The consolation was that I found the correct line to make 6
+++++++++++++++++++++
Thank you mw64ahw :) East-West hands transposed for convenience.
Well bid and well played, CyberYeti :)

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#5 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2022-April-27, 10:51

View Postmycroft, on 2022-April-27, 09:21, said:

Well, we'll start (1NT)-2 (majors)-2 (definite preference); 3. Interesting to see whether two aces and a ruff and knowing where the points are feels like enough.

Yeah, 6 is right out. Never mind "Thanks for giving us the extra entry to responder we didn't have."


You don't need the extra entry, but you do need trumps 3-2 with the K onside and N to have Kx/Kxx. Say they lead a diamond, heart to the A, ditch diamond on club A, hook the spade, ruff a spade lead dummy's last heart and hope the weather is fine.

Our problem is that this is a bad hand for the system. We play Asptro, so the auction starts (1N)-2(hearts and another, if both majors spades are better)-P-2-P-2(extras both majors) and now we would need some luck/rose tinted glasses to find 4 rather than 3 as we need to persuade W that E has the 5th heart, and to persuade E that partner's hand with 3 hearts and a load of clubs is worth game.
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#6 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2022-April-27, 12:00

Game seems fairly easy to bid.

2C majors is a standard approach, and over 2H east would have to be Delong very pessimistic not to take another call. Methods matter a bit. Arguably one could play that 2C then 2S over 2H shows this sort of hand: 6 spades, 5 hearts (with 6-4 just bid spades) and some extras. If that were your agreement, 4H is trivial by west.

Otherwise east has to bid 3HÖ.thatís not as good an agreement because the former allows for some number of spades as the strain, should west have equal length in both majors.

Over 3H, west has two aces and a stiff spade. 4H is clear.
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#7 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2022-April-27, 12:17

View Postmikeh, on 2022-April-27, 12:00, said:

Game seems fairly easy to bid.

2C majors is a standard approach, and over 2H east would have to be Delong very pessimistic not to take another call. Methods matter a bit. Arguably one could play that 2C then 2S over 2H shows this sort of hand: 6 spades, 5 hearts (with 6-4 just bid spades) and some extras. If that were your agreement, 4H is trivial by west.

Otherwise east has to bid 3HÖ.thatís not as good an agreement because the former allows for some number of spades as the strain, should west have equal length in both majors.

Over 3H, west has two aces and a stiff spade. 4H is clear.


It's easy if you show 5-5, many people here could be 5/4.
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#8 User is offline   mw64ahw 

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Posted 2022-April-27, 15:06

View PostCyberyeti, on 2022-April-27, 12:17, said:

It's easy if you show 5-5, many people here could be 5/4.

Just added a spoiler with the simulator playing a modified version of Hello which is able to show 3 types of both Majors.



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#9 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2022-April-27, 15:36

View PostCyberyeti, on 2022-April-27, 12:17, said:

It's easy if you show 5-5, many people here could be 5/4.

I can be 5/4 or 4/5. Thatís not an issue. One would need, imo, to be insane to bid 2C and then claim that bidding 2S over 2H showed 5/4
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#10 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2022-April-28, 00:31

View Postmikeh, on 2022-April-27, 15:36, said:

I can be 5/4 or 4/5. That’s not an issue. One would need, imo, to be insane to bid 2C and then claim that bidding 2S over 2H showed 5/4


No it doesn't, but could easily be 6-4, although if you have a just sub penalty double hand (or don't play a penalty double) you might do it 5/4. Partner's 3352 10 count might look a lot better now.
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#11 User is offline   Gilithin 

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Posted 2022-May-10, 17:08

Surely after Landy and 2, 3 and 3 are the basic game tries - which type to use is a question I do not ever remember seeing discussed though. Bidding 3 rather than 2 or 3m just feels wrong here.
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