[maris oren]

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is souths bid correct and what is the meaning of redouble?

[Cyberyeti]

Might help if you supplied an auction

[maris oren]

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sorry-this is the auction re last post

[DavidKok]

No, South should bid some number of diamonds instead. Redouble shows a willingness to defend some other contract. With a massive fit in opener's suit it is vital to show support.

[Cyberyeti]

DavidKok, on 2022-August-22, 10:57, said:

No, South should bid some number of diamonds instead. Redouble shows a willingness to defend some other contract. With a massive fit in opener's suit it is vital to show support.

I've done this as a semi psyche before, 1♠-X-XX-P-P and the man takes a multi minute think, where are the spades ? I'm looking at 7 spades to the 10 and an ace. Eventually he emerges with a bid, I bid 4♠-X +790.

But yes XX is ideally a 4414 10 count that wants to double the opps and expects to make 1♦xx on power.

[DavidKok]

Cyberyeti, on 2022-August-22, 11:16, said:

I've done this as a semi psyche before, 1♠-X-XX-P-P and the man takes a multi minute think, where are the spades ? I'm looking at 7 spades to the 10 and an ace. Eventually he emerges with a bid, I bid 4♠-X +790.

But yes XX is ideally a 4414 10 count that wants to double the opps and expects to make 1♦xx on power.

Next time they jump to 5♦ and the joke is on you. It is also quite daft to double that 4♠ with shortness.

[mikeh]

DavidKok, on 2022-August-22, 12:21, said:

Next time they jump to 5♦ and the joke is on you. It is also quite daft to double that 4♠ with shortness.

Bad players get suckered on occasion. This kind of ‘baby psyche’ does more harm than good against strong pairs. They trust their partner, and when responder redoubles then jumps to game, it’s like showing their hand to the opponents. However, most players don’t play much against strong opposition, at least not on a regular basis, so these psyches will work more than they should.

Of course, one may well argue that if one’s opponents can’t handle this kind of psyche, they probably can’t handle more normal bidding either.

I used to be a frequent psycher, but I never psyched against weak players.

Returning to the OP, redouble is ‘wrong’. How many diamonds one should bid (and whether one has an artificial way of bidding diamonds) is a different matter. I’d want to know my agreements, my partner, and my opps. Also, the form of scoring. Matchpoints lends itself to ‘operating’ more than does imps. At imps, playing with good teammates, one ought rarely to do anything really weird….but matchpoints, a disaster is only one board, and one doesn’t have teammates to disappoint.

[LBengtsson]

It is a difficult hand as...

1. You should bid up to the level of the fit.
2. You probably have some defense with ♠K making and ♣AJx
3. Partner may have the right cards for 3NT to make

XX is the wrong bid as other commentators have said. Bidding 1♥/1♠ as psyche is only going to work with weak opponents. If 1♦ here is 3+ as opener, I like 2NT here to show limit raise to 3♦. It is not the ideal hand, but that is the most descriptive bid imo. With 4414 or similar you would XX here, and with pre-mptive value in ♦s you would bid 3♦ after opps. X. This hand has some offense so 2NT seem right.

[Cyberyeti]

DavidKok, on 2022-August-22, 12:21, said:

Next time they jump to 5♦ and the joke is on you. It is also quite daft to double that 4♠ with shortness.

Very very rarely do they leap to 5♦ over a redouble, where the redouble wins is where partner (playing old style Acol) has a 4 card spade suit (432) 16 and opps have 1444s 16 opposite 4. It's common style to pass over the redouble without a 5 card suit other than possibly spades. The 1444 16 then has nowhere sensible to go, as it looks like his partner has spades. Unfortunately in this case he had a 5 card club suit, but still very nearly passed it out.

I'm not clear if the opps were on the same wavelength as to what the X was.

[Douglas43]

Well, to be fair, 1♦ is probably making

[michel444]

DavidKok, on 2022-August-22, 10:57, said:

No, South should bid some number of diamonds instead. Redouble shows a willingness to defend some other contract. With a massive fit in opener's suit it is vital to show support.

IMHO south should pass forcing West to bid
west will probably bid a major on level 1 or 2
then south gain some info on opponet hand
and can decide which level to bid Diamond

[Gilithin]

michel444, on 2022-September-10, 10:34, said:

IMHO south should pass forcing West to bid
west will probably bid a major on level 1 or 2 then south gain some info on opponet hand and can decide which level to bid Diamond

(1♦) - X - (XX) - P -- 3♥ - P - P, your bid. Supporting with support in a competitive auction is an important rule that will save you and your partner many headaches.

[bluenikki]

LBengtsson, on 2022-August-22, 15:14, said:

Bidding 1♥/1♠ as psyche is only going to work with weak opponents.

Really? I have a constant fight with my partners to insist that (1♦) - x - (1♥) - x shows four or more hearts. It is not mainly to expose out-and-out psychs, but rather to play in hearts when responder has 5432 in their suit. Not at all uncommon holding!!

[bluenikki]

LBengtsson, on 2022-August-22, 15:14, said:

Bidding 1♥/1♠ as psyche is only going to work with weak opponents.

Really? I have a constant fight with my partners to insist that (1♦) - x - (1♥) - x shows four or more hearts. It is not mainly to expose out-and-out psychs, but rather to play in hearts when responder has 5432 in their suit. Not at all an uncommon holding!!

[mycroft]

There are way too many people who play 1m-x-1M-x as "responsive". They do it, of course, because there are too many people who won't take advantage of that to pick off their suit. There aren't very many psyches of 1M; but there will be more once you've proven that you can't handle it. Definitely, on the hands where you have the blacks, there's lots of upside to play this as takeout. But when you have 3-4-4-2 8 count, less so (partner does *not* want to hear 1NT).

I, too, like "this is our suit, partner" - maybe not necessarily "4 hearts", but "Opposite a takeout double, I think we should defend". The implication being, of course, that going back to diamonds isn't going to work out terribly well for them either (or at least I have a plan for when they go back). So I may not survive against the outright psyches (1-2 hearts, 4+ diamonds, 6-9 high), but at least I have a chance. And we do catch them in the "20-20, everything's a flattish misfit" cycles.

[Gilithin]

mycroft, on 2022-September-12, 09:32, said:

There are way too many people who play 1m-x-1M-x as "responsive". They do it, of course, because there are too many people who won't take advantage of that to pick off their suit.

If the major is spades then it makes perfect sense to play X as showing hearts. If the major is hearts though, there is hardly a hand for the X to show other than hearts, so we may as well take advantage.

[michel444]

Gilithin, on 2022-September-10, 18:56, said:

(1♦) - X - (XX) - P -- 3♥ - P - P, your bid. Supporting with support in a competitive auction is an important rule that will save you and your partner many headaches.

i said pass so oction is 1♦ X pass ?? 1M 2 M ??
ready to go to 4♦

[Gilithin]

michel444, on 2022-September-15, 07:37, said:

ready to go to 4♦

Unfortunately your partner opened 1♦ on a 4=4=3=2 hand and now you are too high - pity. Next auction: 1♦ - (X) - XX or P - (4♥) -- P - (P). Your choice this time?

[DavidKok]

Support with support. I'm not a fan of '1♦ (can be balanced)', or even '1♦ (can be 5♦332)', but even systems where the opening might only promise 3 have ways to distinguish between different diamond raises. All of 2♦, 2NT, 3♦, 3♥, 3♠, 4♣, 4♦ and some even higher bids should show some diamond raise, and one of them shows this kind of hand type.