[Kungsgeten]

I haven't played the immediate negative, but I thought the idea was to make it easier on slam hands (knowing responder has some values) rather than stopping short of game.

For a long time I've switched the 20-21 NT and the 22-24 NT, so that 20-21 is in 2C, while 22-24 opens 2NT (non-forcing). This style is pretty common in Sweden. We play natural negatives over 2C:

2C--
2D = Waiting. If a really bad hand then usually balanced.
2M = To play vs 20-21 NT.
3m = To play vs 20-21 NT.

The biggest benefit is being able to stop in 2M vs the 20-21 NT. Another benefit is that a new suit by responder after 2C-2D promise some values. You could also change your 2NT system so that 2NT-3red is a GF transfer (sure you might be too high vs 22-24, but rarely so), and play that opener only accepts the transfer with support (or vice versa).

The method might not be optimal (it is probably better to play transfer responses to 2C, where 2D is "waiting or hearts"), but it is easy to remember.

[mw64ahw]

Kungsgeten, on 2023-September-01, 01:48, said:

I haven't played the immediate negative, but I thought the idea was to make it easier on slam hands (knowing responder has some values) rather than stopping short of game.

For a long time I've switched the 20-21 NT and the 22-24 NT, so that 20-21 is in 2C, while 22-24 opens 2NT (non-forcing). This style is pretty common in Sweden. We play natural negatives over 2C:

2C--
2D = Waiting. If a really bad hand then usually balanced.
2M = To play vs 20-21 NT.
3m = To play vs 20-21 NT.

The biggest benefit is being able to stop in 2M vs the 20-21 NT. Another benefit is that a new suit by responder after 2C-2D promise some values. You could also change your 2NT system so that 2NT-3red is a GF transfer (sure you might be too high vs 22-24, but rarely so), and play that opener only accepts the transfer with support (or vice versa).

The method might not be optimal (it is probably better to play transfer responses to 2C, where 2D is "waiting or hearts"), but it is easy to remember.

If you include a Weak 2♦ (with a 4-card side suit) bid in your 2♣ then its better for 2♥ to be your GI bid as 2♣-2♦-2♥ can be passed (ignoring the low likelihood 10+ card ♥ fit). 2♥ also allows full strength/shape descriptions if you want them.

Also by not waiting for 2♣-2♦-2♥ to break the relay (playing 'Birthright' you may be missing out on a better suit fit.

Relay break response with a Bust hand. Opener forcing to game with extras
Ø 2NT 5⁺ m (not BD) or 5⁺©ª
..Ø 3m preference/3§ pass/correct
....Ø 3© 5⁺©ª
Ø 3§ 5⁺ª
Ø 3¨ 5⁺©4ª
Ø 3© 4©5⁺ª

[straube]

Kungsgeten, on 2023-September-01, 01:48, said:

I haven't played the immediate negative, but I thought the idea was to make it easier on slam hands (knowing responder has some values) rather than stopping short of game.

For a long time I've switched the 20-21 NT and the 22-24 NT, so that 20-21 is in 2C, while 22-24 opens 2NT (non-forcing). This style is pretty common in Sweden. We play natural negatives over 2C:

2C--
2D = Waiting. If a really bad hand then usually balanced.
2M = To play vs 20-21 NT.
3m = To play vs 20-21 NT.

The biggest benefit is being able to stop in 2M vs the 20-21 NT. Another benefit is that a new suit by responder after 2C-2D promise some values. You could also change your 2NT system so that 2NT-3red is a GF transfer (sure you might be too high vs 22-24, but rarely so), and play that opener only accepts the transfer with support (or vice versa).

The method might not be optimal (it is probably better to play transfer responses to 2C, where 2D is "waiting or hearts"), but it is easy to remember.

What do the responses 2N and higher mean to 2C?

What are the follow-ups after 2C-2D/2M? Are you pretty much in a GF if opener has a suit and hears a 2M response?

[Kungsgeten]

My methods are very simple/primitive after the 2C opening. We never respond 2NT, nor 3M or higher. Responding 3m is "to play" vs 20-21 NT (so immediate negative).

I've seen people play 2NT as "negative in one of the minors" instead (opener bids 3C with 20-21 NT). Then I guess 3X can be used as some sort of positive response.

Yeah our style of 2C is "20-21 NT or any GF". If opener rebids a suit it is forcing to game. 2C-2M; 2NT is also forcing. After 2C-2D you could play Birthright if you like.

[Kungsgeten]

Mats Nilsland in his book "Five Card Majors - The Scanian Way" use a 2C opening showing 18-21 NT or unbalanced GF (but not with diamonds as the primary suit). His 2NT opening is 22-24 and his 2D multi opening includes 25+ NT and GF diamond hands. He use the following responses to 2C (adjust to taste if 2C is 20-21/25+ if balanced):

2C--
2D = Relay with most hands. 2NT via Birthright is 18-19, direct 2NT rebid is 20-21.
2M = 0-4(5) hcp with 5+M (4-card suit if you are a gambler). Opener's 2NT is F1 with 20-21 NT and support (3M is negative).
2NT = 0-4(5) with a 5+ minor.
3X = Transfer to a six card suit with H or HH. No other ace or king.
3NT = AKQxxx(x) in any suit.
4X = Transfer to AKJxxxx / AQJxxxx / KQJxxxx.

More details in the book.

[bluenikki]

foobar, on 2023-August-27, 12:28, said:

I will go out on a limb and say that playing 2♥ as DN over 2♣ is a bad idea. It's much better to play 2♦ as waiting barring a positive response

Given the OP's restriction of being compelled to play 2♥ as DN, it probably makes most sense to play 2N as NF.

As Rosenkranz pointed out, it is not a natural law that opening 2NT must be weaker than 2♣ - 2X - 2NT. Making the 2NT opening be 22+ to 24- does much to alleviate all this stuff, as well as reducing the frequency of the worst opening bid in bridge.

Then 2♣ - 2X - 2NT can show 20+ to 22-. When is a 22 bad? When it includes two honors doubleton other than AK.