BBO Discussion Forums: Player hesitates with a singleton, tricking declarer into taking a wrong finesse - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Player hesitates with a singleton, tricking declarer into taking a wrong finesse

#1 User is offline   Thranduil 

  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 33
  • Joined: 2024-July-17

Posted 2024-November-02, 16:56

Happened today in an online tournament on BBO. I was declarer in 6NT and was at a point where I had to decide between three finesses to make the contract. First finesse was in for the jack, where (after losing a trick to the A) I held a small one opposite dummy's Q10xxx, the other two finesses were against either opponent for the Q. I led my small to dummy, and LHO, who at that point only had a singleton left, hesitated quite a bit before eventually playing their . Of course that made me think they had the jack, thus I took the finesse, which failed and the contract went down one.

Once play was finished, I immediately called the TD for unsportsmanlike conduct from LHO and asked for an adjustment of the score, as I would have not risked the finesse, had LHO played their singleton in tempo - I already knew at that point that the diamonds were 4-1 with RHO having the singleton, so the chance for the Q to be in RHO's hand was higher. The hesitation by LHO tricked me into taking the wrong finesse. The TD did not adjust the score though, stating that they were already at the table and did not see a hesitation.

Are there laws in bridge against unsportsmanlike hesitations like here, where a player deliberately hesitates not to give their partner UI, but to trick the declarer into taking a wrong play?
0

#2 User is offline   smerriman 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,022
  • Joined: 2014-March-15
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2024-November-02, 18:40

Yes, intentionally hesitating to trick declarer is specifically outlawed by law 73D 2:

Quote

A player may not attempt to mislead an opponent by means of a question, remark or
gesture; by the haste or hesitancy of a call or play (as in hesitating before playing a
singleton); by the manner in which a call or play is made; or by any purposeful deviation
from correct procedure (see also Law 73E2)


But in a casual online tournament, tempo is virtually meaningless; you have no idea why the person was hesitating (perhaps they had a bad connection, or someone knocked at the door). Perhaps it was your own connection that was faulty, and they played in tempo like the director stated. The director has a record of timings, but it's generally not a good idea to try to read too much into perceived hesitations online.
0

#3 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,249
  • Joined: 2005-March-18
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2024-November-03, 15:21

View PostThranduil, on 2024-November-02, 16:56, said:

<snip>
Of course that made me think they had the jack, thus I took the finesse, which failed and the contract went down one.
<snip>
Are there laws in bridge against unsportsmanlike hesitations like here, where a player deliberately hesitates not to give their partner UI, but to trick the declarer into taking a wrong play?

As stated yes, there are, but if you act on the hesitation, you do it at your own risk.
I dont think the score will ever be adjusted, what can happen is, that the unsportsman like player gets a pp, but you will keep our score.
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
0

#4 User is offline   blackshoe 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,693
  • Joined: 2006-April-17
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rochester, NY

Posted 2024-November-03, 23:43

"Bridge is not a very good game." -- David Burn
--------------------
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
1

#5 User is online   pilowsky 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,759
  • Joined: 2019-October-04
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Poland

Posted 2024-November-04, 05:21

Predicating the probability of the position of a card based on the pace of an opponents play doesn't increase the odds of a finesse working.
It just causes psychic discomfort.
Fortuna Fortis Felix
0

#6 User is offline   barmar 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Admin
  • Posts: 21,584
  • Joined: 2004-August-21
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2024-November-04, 16:02

Why would the hesitation make you think they have the jack? They couldn't possibly have been thinking of playing it, since that just solves the problem for you.

#7 User is offline   pescetom 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 7,886
  • Joined: 2014-February-18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Italy

Posted 2024-November-05, 12:12

 blackshoe, on 2024-November-03, 23:43, said:

"Bridge is not a very good game." -- David Burn

I agree. But 73D2 is a good rule, and maybe it's time we did hold people responsible for their connection and tempo online.
0

#8 User is online   pilowsky 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,759
  • Joined: 2019-October-04
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Poland

Posted 2024-November-05, 13:40

View Postpescetom, on 2024-November-05, 12:12, said:

I agree. But 73D2 is a good rule, and maybe it's time we did hold people responsible for their connection and tempo online.


If you can't realistically do it IRL then how can you possibly do it in the ether.
Fortuna Fortis Felix
0

#9 User is offline   johnu 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 5,029
  • Joined: 2008-September-10
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2024-November-05, 16:46

View Postpilowsky, on 2024-November-05, 13:40, said:

If you can't [won't] realistically do it IRL then how can you possibly do it in the ether.

Good question, I made a small modification to your post. IRL, unless there is video proof or somebody monitoring the table with a stopwatch, there's a question as to how long the hesitation was.

Online, with exact play times available, it's possible to analyze the timing of all those questionable plays, similar to how EDGAR works for actual bids and plays.
0

#10 User is offline   sanst 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 864
  • Joined: 2014-July-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Deventer, The Netherlands

Posted 2024-November-06, 04:57

 johnu, on 2024-November-05, 16:46, said:

Online, with exact play times available, it's possible to analyze the timing of all those questionable plays, similar to how EDGAR works for actual bids and plays.

Online there can be all kind of causes for a delay. Even with a fast connection I sometimes have to wait a few seconds for a page to be displayed, which at other moments jumps immediately to the screen. What about clicking just outside the button or having to click twice for no obvious reason? And please, don't start about Edgar.
Joost
0

#11 User is offline   blackshoe 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,693
  • Joined: 2006-April-17
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rochester, NY

Posted 2024-November-06, 12:10

Is "all kinds of causes for a delay" a reason to ignore the law, or an excuse?
--------------------
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
0

#12 User is offline   barmar 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Admin
  • Posts: 21,584
  • Joined: 2004-August-21
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2024-November-06, 19:31

View Postblackshoe, on 2024-November-06, 12:10, said:

Is "all kinds of causes for a delay" a reason to ignore the law, or an excuse?

A reason. If the playing environment makes it hard to maintain steady tempo, you can't really be expected to follow that law faithfully.

#13 User is offline   smerriman 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,022
  • Joined: 2014-March-15
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2024-November-06, 19:43

View Postblackshoe, on 2024-November-06, 12:10, said:

Is "all kinds of causes for a delay" a reason to ignore the law, or an excuse?

Neither. The law applies in both cases, but may result in a different *outcome* online.
1

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users