[jillybean]

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Tell me again how you plan to bid these hands?

Happy Diwali

[mike777]

2c rebid 2nt..usual solution

btw make QH, small x I open 1D

[paulg]

I'm happy to open 1♦.

[Cyberyeti]

Happy to open 1♦, if I play a multi with strong options, I would include this

[jillybean]

Mike, you will find yourself in 3nt

Paul, Yeti - partner will of course bid 1♥

[jdiana]

I would also open 1♦ though I wouldn't really be happy about it. There's a possibility that I'll be left there but hopefully not a large one. If partner bids 1♥, I have a natural jump shift to 2♠ available. It's a bit of a misdescription because partner will think I'm 5-4, but I think it's the best description of my hand.

[mikeh]

Easy 2C. I’ve opened 23 counts at the one level a few times over the years and not, iirc, ever regretted it, but not 4441 with stiff H (A/K/Q).

1D is so awkward. If I intend to rebid 2S, we’re (almost) never reaching clubs…it won’t be easy most time after 2C then 2N but it’ll be far tougher after we show 4-5 or 4-6 pointed. Plus we may have a difficult time staying out of diamonds. 3=5=4=1 may be reluctant to let us play 3N, especially at imps where the diamond game may reasonably appear superior. And so on.

So 2C then 2N isn’t perfect. So what? Unless you incorporate some version of big Roman 2D (either stand alone, which virtually nobody plays…with reason…or the more common inclusion in multi) you have to compromise. To me 2C then 2N is the smallest distortion

[Cyberyeti]

We play 1♠ rebid pretty much forcing, 1♦-1♥-1♠-1N-3♣ gets this hand over very nicely, we also play 2♣ over 1♠ only F1 not FG.

[jillybean]

Continuing with the Yeti auction

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How do I increase the size of bidding panel so that we can see the entire auction without scrolling?

[mike777]

Have no idea why 3C showed 23 hcp 4441 hand
Any event 4c must be slam try: I could hardly have a better hand.
So 4D kickback now..

[jillybean]

 mike777, on 2024-October-30, 09:48, said:

Have no idea why 3C showed 23 hcp 4441 hand
Any event 4c must be slam try: I could hardly have a better hand.
So 4D kickback now..

I'm not sure that it does show a 23hcp hand, but it should show a powerful 3 suited hand.
4C is confirming the club fit , just co operating, not a slam try ?

[mw64ahw]

I've moved primary strong ♦ out of 2♣ so now playing reverse Kokish/'birthright' I have
2♣ - 2♦
3♦ 4144
with
3♣ 5+♣s or 4414
3♥ 1444
3♠ 4441
A non-slam going responder now bids the next suit up/3N.

[Cyberyeti]

 mike777, on 2024-October-30, 09:48, said:

Have no idea why 3C showed 23 hcp 4441 hand
Any event 4c must be slam try: I could hardly have a better hand.
So 4D kickback now..

It didn't, but it showed about 19+ GF and could be 4054 4♦ kickback confirms 4144.

[mike777]

 jillybean, on 2024-October-30, 09:54, said:

I'm not sure that it does show a 23hcp hand, but it should show a powerful 3 suited hand.
4C is confirming the club fit , just co operating, not a slam try ?

Since we are in a gf, 4c would show some slam interest, 5c would show none, now Opener may be tempted to bid 6c over a 5c response...The only reason for concern is 4441 hands tend to not play great.....

[jillybean]

 mike777, on 2024-October-30, 10:33, said:

Since we are in a gf, 4c would show some slam interest, 5c would show none, now Opener may be tempted to bid 6c over a 5c response...The only reason for concern is 4441 hands tend to not play great.....

Since we are in a gf, I do not like jumps to game when partner is unlimited. I prefer 4C to be cooperative. 5C would say, I really should not have responded in the first round.

This is easy for me to say of course.
My auction would likely have been
2C:2D
2N:

[pescetom]

 jillybean, on 2024-October-30, 09:54, said:

4C is confirming the club fit , just co operating, not a slam try ?

4C is beyond 3NT... why would he bid it if not interested in a clubs slam?

For me it's a clear 2C 2D 2NT in the first place.

[DavidKok]

In standard I would have started 2♣-2♦; 2NT. 4441's are always awkward - the only unbalanced hand type without a five card suit to bid. Make it very strong and all bets are off. Fortunately our singleton is a queen, so claiming that we have a balanced hand is not a huge lie. The range is about right too - this sequence shows 22-23, and our AK's are worth extra (and those two 10s!) but the shape and singleton queen are worth downgrades.

On the slower auction 1♦-1♥; 1♠-1NT; 3♣ it matters quite a bit what responder's alternatives to 1NT are. For me the 1♠ rebid shows 5(+)♦, 4(+)♠. Responder will raise spades with 4, rebid hearts with 6, or raise diamonds with most hands with 3 (though with values in clubs and hearts responder may choose to grab 1NT instead of supporting the minor suit). This limits 1NT to 3=5=2=3, 4(+)♣, or some freak hands with 3 clubs and concentrated values in the suit (and based on our holding it's not the last one). This is rather good news for us.

I don't have agreements over the 3♣ rebid, but responder should be aware that opener already knows their shape quite well. Furthermore, 3♦ is available as a punt. Therefore I think 4♣ is positive, rather than just cooperative.

[johnu]

 mikeh, on 2024-October-30, 09:05, said:

Unless you incorporate some version of big Roman 2D (either stand alone, which virtually nobody plays…with reason…or the more common inclusion in multi) you have to compromise.

The Italian Blue Team Club book by Forquet and Garozzo included a 17-24 HCP 4441 opening 2♦ bid (apparently invented by Garozzo). There was a whole section of mostly artificial responses to sort out the hands. I don't recall anybody but Garozzo and Forquet actually using this bid. Certainly on a frequency of use basis, it's hard to justify reserving a bid for such a low frequency event.

In one story I heard, Forquet had a suitable hand for a 2♦ opening, but instead opened a strong 1♣. He ended up as dummy, and as he was putting down his hand, apologized saying that he had forgotten to open 2♦. Forgot the opening bid, or forgot the very complex set of responses?

[jillybean]

Here’s the hand

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[mw64ahw]

jillybean, on 2024-October-30, 20:09, said:

Here's the hand

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Anyone have the methods to bid 6N?